Equity Rising S2 : Episode 6

equity in Education
with baionne coleman

Rainier Valley Leadership Academy is a public, tuition-free, anti-racist collaborative community school in South Seattle where sixth to twelfth grade students—here they're called "scholars"—are supported on their path to college, leadership, and life.

RVLA CEO, president, mother, and lifelong Central District resident Baionne Coleman talks to Trae about building big systems, regenerative fundraising, keeping that money in the community, and, truly, the future.

Find out more about Rainier Valley Leadership Academy.

In this week's Chime In, Dr. Maxine Mimms, a former teacher and national consultant in curriculum design and instructional methods, says Baionne's biggest strength is listening—because from there she can do anything. Learn more about Maxine Mimms Academies.

This episode was produced by Julia Drachman, edited by Erika Hope, and mastered by Josh Berl. Description was written by Laura Cassidy. Transcribed by Cause Haun.

Transcript

TraeAnna Holiday  00:02

Okay, Dr. Maxine Mimms, please tell us how Baionne Coleman as the CEO, is an equity change maker over at Rainier Valley Leadership Academy.

Dr. Maxine Mimms  00:16

Well, I've known her for years. And her style of leadership is what allows other voices to be heard. And that requires real excellent sensitivity, and the ability to have the right time, timing and patience to allow those other voices to be heard. And I think that's what's happening. And I think that's different in that leadership academy and all the rest of the stuff that we see in education, the ability to be confident enough to listen.

TraeAnna Holiday  00:59

Yeah, she does it well.

Dr. Maxine Mimms  01:01

Very, very, super, super well.

TraeAnna Holiday  01:04

One of the things I've noticed about her is how she understands the language necessary...

Dr. Maxine Mimms  01:12

Yes.

TraeAnna Holiday  01:13

...to do this work. And I want to ask you about their pedagogy of decolonized education, you as an educator, how does that resonate with you?

Dr. Maxine Mimms  01:26

Once you get a visual image of the language, once you get a visual image of power, and what that means, then that becomes something that you can apply in practice. You cannot make the change unless you have an image of the language that you're using, or that you're having a discourse about. And she owns the language. And she owns the listening abilities. So the image is clear. And then she's not threatened by images of other people. She's not threatened by people. She understands and participates, and the joy of the images. It's like a painter. And it's like a canvas. And when you can appreciate in the diversity of those images, and paint those images, and draw that to yourself. Then it's very powerful. And that's, that's where she is.

TraeAnna Holiday  02:22

Well, thank you everybody for joining us for another episode of Equity Rising. I'm your host, Trae Holiday. And we've been just bringing you guys some real heavy hitters, man, from the Pacific Northwest area. And today, I get to have the pleasure of not just a heavy hitter, okay. Not just a heavy hitter in Seattle. But my sis, man, from Garfield High School — we graduated together. Miss Baionne, man, what's up Baionne?

Baionne Coleman  02:50

Thank you. Yes, first of all, just thank you for having me on here. Like, I, you know, you being a pillar in the community, love you to pieces, and just so proud of all the work you're doing as well. And just the opportunity to be able to do it together is a huge thing. So yeah, so I'm Baionne Coleman. I am the CEO of Rainier Valley Leadership Academy, which is a 6th through 12th grade school, public school. So free, non-tuition, anti-racist, collaborative community school focused on dismantling systemic oppression through scholar leadership. And we are located in the Columbia City, South Seattle area. My husband and I also have a nonprofit, the Global Majority Consortium, to really think about how we're closing the opportunity and the wealth gap in Washington State explicitly using education as an access point.

TraeAnna Holiday  03:40

Wow, Baionne Coleman doing so much great work. And you guys, I'm gonna say it right now. Every single time I get to talk to Baionne privately like this, I know there's some emotion that wells up because I just [think] about us roaming the halls of Garfield, both of us attending Howard University, you know, we really, there's so much overlap, right, when it comes to the work that we ended up doing. And it's just such a phenomenal thing when you're thinking about yourself as a young person. And so before I even get into it, we got this thing we do, called First Things First: we're just going to ask you, how are you taking care of yourself?

Baionne Coleman  04:22

You know, recently, I had the opportunity to really take care of myself and spending some quality time with family. I think, oftentimes is like being in community spaces where we're supporting community, we can forget to prioritize family because we're thinking of, you know, community as our family and sometimes not always pouring into our immediate family. So, I haven't had an opportunity to see my dad based off of him having stomach cancer and needing to quarantine for three years basically. And so he finally came out so I had the opportunity to spend eight days with him, with my husband, JC, and my beautiful children and just like five hours of Monopoly, taking breaks, coming back to Monopoly, going fishing, and just like sitting down and talking about, like the history of you know, being a parent and looking at children, my children and you know, listening to my dad tell me how my children have become like little mini-me's and like, why he thinks that and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, like, I think that was really healing coming off of this pandemic, and being able to make sure that I spent that quality time with him. So that was really.

TraeAnna Holiday  05:38

Wow, it sounds like it was, you know, I think you're absolutely right, what you said in terms of getting that immediate family time, because we work in community so much, and I know that I have struggled with that balance often, right. And, you know, I know, we know this, you know, we attend these community meetings, and oftentimes we have our kids with us. It's like, hey, you know, you know, you gotta come with me in order to, you know, for me to participate, I need you to be here. And so I've been thinking a lot about that. And I think it really blends into some of the questions I want to get into with you. Because, you know, my son is a scholar at Rainier Valley Leadership Academy. And so I've been able to, in the last year, really experience this kind of decolonized educational pedagogy, right, like literally how you guys are building everything and structuring everything. And you know, when we talk about equity as our basis for this podcast, oftentimes I say it almost every episode, you know, equity needs to be built into everything, because it was not inherently established in anything, right? It wasn't part of the system. How have you, I know last year, you were CEO and principal, this year, you got a principal coming in, but how have you been able to really think about the work of RVLA? In terms of, you know, this equity lens.

Baionne Coleman  07:05

Equity really starts with Black and Indigenous communities. And so when we look at equity, a lot of folks, you know, you, you've seen all the pictures of like the fences gone, folks are standing on boxes, you know, giving folks what they need in order to thrive. And a lot of folks ignore the fact that we also have to pay attention to the folks who aren't on those boxes, and who are not standing in that open field to be able to see, right, that baseball game that they're always showing in that caption. And to me, that's real equity, right: being able to honestly and transparently have conversation around the folks who have not been at the table and haven't even been able to see the home that the table's in. And so what that really means is like focusing in on Black folks. And when I say Black folks, I explicitly mean, Black folks that are descendants of the enslaved. There is something beautiful about being able to have language and family units be able to come in and build community. And that's not what Black folks, the descendants of the enslaved have been able to have. And so that has been very, very detrimental to our Black community. And so that's real equity. Right. And we know that our Indigenous, you know, community has, really their culture has been, you know, tried to be ripped from them, you know what I mean? Like, by the way that they dress and their language, and their land, and whatnot. And so if we begin to actually address the folks who have been most harmed in the history of our America, then we can begin to really access true equity. And I think that that's a tough conversation for folks to actually have to grapple with. Because then that also means that folks who are not those two communities have to also think about how they have been able to privilege off of the harm that has been caused, and the pain and the trauma that has been inflicted on Black and Indigenous communities. And a lot of folks don't want to reconcile with that. But that's true equity.

TraeAnna Holiday  09:08

Wow. You know, I just, I had to ask that off the gate, because I really want to set a foundation for this audience to know who we have before us because you are just such a force, and you bring it in everything you do. And when you were a young person, you know, I'll go all the way to the beginning. As a young woman, you know, we've talked about this before, but I really want to capture this a bit here because there's so many different influences that pour into us, as young people and, you know, seeing your path and blazing the trails that you've blazed, what are some of the — I think, experiences that you had as a young person that you feel were really were the pillars for you to land where you are right now at RVLA?

Baionne Coleman  09:49

Yeah, I think you know, growing up there were 12 of us. My mother was a single mom, little 4'11" woman, Beverly Minnis Washington. I think it's important to say folks' name so that we can pay homage to them. And she raised us. She was a Black Panther in the community. She was an educator. She did a lot of community work as if 12 mouths weren't enough to feed. Like, she also always had official and unofficial foster children in our home. I have two brothers who are adopted and I didn't know they were adopted until I was in high school. Just because like she didn't treat any of us differently. She just loved us all. It was never a thing. Like there were no half brothers and sisters. It was like, you know, if they're mine, if I love them, if they call me Mom, then they're your siblings, period, point blank, I don't care where they came from, who they came from, or how they got here. And so I think like that level of just authenticity and compassion and love for folks really has helped, you know, me step into spaces, and her level of activism, you know, again, like going to community meetings and you know, sitting with other elders, you know, you know, Dawn Mason, Dr. Mimms, like those, you know, Dr. Marcia Arunga, you know, I mean, Debra Sullivan and Carol Peoples-Procter, like these are folks in our community who, you know, I was always around, You know, I mean, like, we went to St. Therese, you know, school, that's now St. Therese Academy, there were, it was a Black and Filipino community. You know what I mean, like, of individuals who were just constantly like pouring into us, you know, Wayne Melonson, you know, really kind of helped me understand like, what decolonized education could start to look like when you know, you're a leader in a space who's protecting kids, you know, what I mean? That, like, look like Black and Brown children. And so I think there was a lot of foundation. I also think having a healthy respect for other religions is something that's really important, a lot of times equality isn't called into the space of religion. And I think we also have to really understand how that plays into people's beliefs around racism and equity. There's a lot of reconciliation conversations that need to happen in the front for religions, and we were raised Muslim, I went to Catholic school, and you know, I'm a Christian, and my mother always made us learn about other religions and have a healthy respect for them, you know, and just like a higher being and a higher calling, and so I appreciate that, because I've never needed to feel like I need to look down on someone, you know, from their perspective. And I think, you know, that just the way that she brought us up really helped me understand just what that love should look like, someone should be able to look at you and see God. Right, should be able to see that higher being, and you should never have to tell them what religion you are. But like, if we're really, truly being called to be the individuals that we are, then like, we have to begin to have those conversations. And if we're going to be real about religion, there's some reconciliation that has to happen, you know what I mean? Like, it makes some folks upset. But, you know, I say it all the time in the spaces of, you know, with other Christians and whatnot, but there wouldn't be a whole lot of Christians, if folks actually had to grapple with what their Jesus actually looked like, based off of what the Bible says he looks like, you know, which is a man "of bronzen color and hair of wool," right? Folks are traumatizing our Black communities. But Jesus was someone who looked like us in those communities. And so how many people would actually follow him if they actually had to put that picture up in their home? Right. So I think those are the things that have influenced the type of individual that I, you know, hoped to be and strive to be, and I'm trying to step into.

TraeAnna Holiday  13:31

Well, I think you're doing it. I mean, you know, the ways that I've experienced you, I think there are certain certain folks that stay trying, right? And maybe never cross over to doing. And I definitely think that you're a person who is, from my vantage point and perspective, you've crossed over to doing. But it's really interesting to hear that amalgamation of, you know, kind of a smorgasbord, right, of what you had in your upbringing to give you this kind of outlook and foundation. And, you know, when we think about ourselves, as you know, young college students, you know, leaving high school and embarking on our collegiate journey, so many things are coming at you. Right? You have these things that, you know, really helped you understand yourself from a high school level all the way up to that point, you have your interests, right? And things that may be talent-based. I know, for me, creativity was always a part of you know, who I was going to be, even when I tried to dodge it, you know, and do clinical lab science and become a physician assistant. All right, creativity was always going to be there. What are some of those things when you think about yourself at the collegiate level that kept you going, "Y'know what, maybe it's education"? When was that moment for you to be like, "Wow, this is exactly what I'm gonna be doing. And I'm gonna do this work from an educational perspective"?

Baionne Coleman  14:52

You know, what's funny is because my mother was an educator, I never wanted to be an educator. My mom was also an artist. So there was always like this idea of creating spaces for us to be in creating, you know, just art and beauty around us. And so I think like that has been something that has been integral to the work. Because I never wanted to be an attorney, I thought — excuse me, I wanted to be an attorney. I never wanted to be an educator. And so I ran from education in all aspects, at aspects of that, and really thought about the fact that like, I'll change the world by being a family law attorney. And what I'll do is I'll make sure that, you know, the kids who are in juvenile detention centers, they have to go through literacy programs, because you know, even early on, in those days before it became like a big conversation around, you know, the school-to-prison pipeline, I knew that most of the kids that my mom and dad were working with at the juvenile detention center couldn't read, and they were going on to prison. So I thought I was going to change the world by just making sure kids can read. But I definitely ran from education. Like when I was at Howard, I was in, you know, taking pre-law classes and doing all of that. When I, when my mother got breast cancer, and I came back to to Washington and was at University of Washington, one of my professors, Tim Standal, he had me. He saw something and he was like, You know what, like, You're brilliant. You're an undergrad, and I need you to start taking graduate courses. And I'm going to have you start taking graduate courses, right now, you know, during my undergrad years, and so he supported with a lot of those opportunities in that space. And he had a conversation with me, because everything he was right, everything that I was doing was in education. I was working for Rainer Scholars and for Gear Up and Aesop and going out and tutoring kids and you know, creating curriculum, you know what I mean? Like in training teachers how to go out and, you know, do literacy support, and whatnot for America Reads and all these different things. And so he just was kind of like, you know, you have to make a choice: Are you going to continue to run? Or are you going to be intervention? Are you going to be prevention? And he was like, if you decide to do law, you're going to be intervention. And by that time, it may be too late for a lot of things to actually change and shift because you're working up, you know, you're working upstream, basically. He was like, but if you're, the work that you're doing is really prevention, and you really just need to step into that. And I think that, for me, was the point where, you know, and I think also seeing my mother, you know, deal with cancer, and knowing just like what a phenomenal woman she was, and really understanding that like, I mean, no teenage girl wants to be like their mom, you know, but like, really see my mother for who she was, and all of the work that she's done, and actually saying, like, if I can just be a fraction of this woman, then I'll be alright. And like really stepping into that. And I think that was the moment like, those two pieces together really supported me, was saying, like, I'm not gonna run away from being my mother, because, you know, she had folks outside of the church at her funeral, because she was that important to people because of what she what she did, and how she treated people. And so if I can just be a fraction of Beverly, then I'll be fine. And so I just got to a point where I was no longer scared of running away from education and wasn't running away from the work that needs to be done.

TraeAnna Holiday  18:10

Wow. Oh so much of it is a push and pull, right, I think about that in terms of my own journey. And so just listening to you, I'm just so reminded of myself, right, you know, started at Howard, I ended up at UW Tacoma. And so much of it, for me was very much those same kind of influences. And so it's funny, because, you know, I spent many years, you know, just banging my head on a corporate glass ceiling, right? Like, oh, you know, I'm going to be, you know, a producer, I'm going to be doing these kinds of campaigns. And, you know, I'm going to take all that I've done in the creative world, and I'm going to make my lane, you know, in this kind of more corporatized creative environment. And it just wasn't it, right; it just... everything just was almost there, but not really and almost there, but not quite. And so I definitely can attest to the fact that you know, there's these things where I didn't realize it was in community until I just like dived in, right for me. And so I feel like it's really important when we think about some of the hurdles that we all come across in our lives that really helped to shape us as well. And when you first came onto the scene for you know, Rainier Valley Leadership Academy, there was hurdles you had to face and really bringing equity, I think to the table from the gate, explained to us some of the things that you had to do to reshape RVLA to be this decolonized, you know, educational platform for these youth and to be very explicit about the youth that you wanted to serve.

Baionne Coleman  19:51

Yeah, look, that's a loaded question. Now, that could be this whole conversation in itself, right. I think in order to really be able to understand how I was able to maneuver through this process, I think kind of opens up a conversation around charter schools in general. And I think... I started a charter school previous to stepping into the space with RVLA. And that was very traumatic. It was a lot of tokenization, it was a lot of, you know, different things happening. And so first and foremost, you know, I want to say to our community, we have to take back our schools. I think that's first and foremost, very, very specifically all of our schools, and starting with charter schools, because charter schools were actually supposed to have been built for global majority community and for global majority leaders to be able to come in and lead in community as an alternative for our communities. And so we need to go in, and we need to demand that our schools be taken back from a lot of the leaders in those spaces. And it's not even that some of those leaders are not doing good work. Some of them are not doing — you know, some of them are tokenizing, and capitalizing off of our communities. And some of them, you know, those teachers who are in those schools are doing phenomenal work with scholars, you know what I mean? Like they believe in them. And so I think that that's something that's really important. Because our charter schools can be a huge catalyst for change, you know, and they can be even more changed when we see leaders of the global majority stepping into those spaces to lead. And so like, I think, you know, we need to demand that, like, more of us are in those spaces. And we need to advocate for more charter schools, and we need to advocate for community-led charter schools explicitly. To say that I think my experience there really put... It made me be more authentic and loud, about like, I was like, never will I walk away and not say what something is, and just be quiet and allow for things to be swept under the carpet. And so I think when community reached out and the elders reached out to say, hey, Baionne, can you come over here and support us through this process of like, you know, moving this large CMO out of Washington State and out of our school as Rainier Valley Leadership Academy explicitly. To be quite frank, like I said, No. You know what I mean, like, I was like, I'm not like, I might be done with education at this point. Like, I don't have the patience for this. You know what I mean? Like, I've seen things be too stalled. And there's a level of urgency that it comes when it comes to our children, like every incident of racism, that they occur, no matter whether you call it a microaggression, or how big or how small, is killing their spirits. And I think like when we start to, like, really think about that, and we think about who folks are in spaces of leadership and how teachers are treating our children, and how leaders are teaching or, you know, supporting or not supporting kids in these spaces. Those are all small pre-meditated attempts of murder on our children. And folks don't think of it that way. Like, everybody wants the niceties. And no, it's not racism, it's a microaggression. It's racism, and it's murder. And that's, that's it, point blank, period. So I knew that I had to pray on it, you know, listened, listened to the elders and stepped into this space. And I think what really supported the reshaping was being unapologetic about the trauma and the pains that like I've gone through and being very explicit, I was not going to allow for other educators to have to go through that, I was not going to sit back and allow for folks to treat children in education, the way that they treated my children in education. You know, in some of the different schools that they went to. And so from the jump, like, when it was like, you know, can we do this, the main thing was, is if we're going to do this, we have to be anti-racist. And that was like, before I was even hired, like, it has to be anti-racist, it has to be decolonized. And it has to be something different. And so, community, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's the difference between having collaborative community and just saying, we're gonna up and open up a school, because the elders were a part of that process to be able to support and to guide, you know, community was a part of that process to be able to support and to guide, and when you have that type of collaborative community, there's a lot of power, you know, that is in that space. And it has to be acknowledged. And so I think, like through that has really supported like, the reshaping and, you know, we talk about critical race theory and decolonize, you know, decolonizing schools, and really what it is, is, it's truth, right? Like you can, it's not even, you know, an argument of whether it's not critical race theory, or if it's decolonized; it's truth, like it's truth to what has happened to communities and truth to what has happened to, you know, the descendants of the enslaved and to the indigenous folks and like, voicing it and calling it what it is, as opposed to like sweeping it under the rug and only giving parts of the history. And so when we talk about that, like that was something when we we stepped into the space we said, We're going to be authentic, and we're going to be truthful, and we're going to be genuine. And we're going to give all of the information, because the reality of it is, is that folks don't give our children enough credit, like our children are scholars, they should be called scholars, right? And so they have these brilliant minds, and they can critically analyze information like nobody's business even better than most adults, you know what I mean, because we get so jaded by the time that we're adults. And so by giving them all of the information, they can make their own opinions, right? And they're able to see themselves in history, as kings and queens and as collaborative community and understand that the collective whole was much more important than the individual, because the individual ripples out into that collective community. So they're able to like think about, okay, well, if I make this decision, then what does that look like? I think the other thing is, is that we've been very unapologetic about being anti-racist. And this was before the pandemic, this was, you know, January, what, 21st, or 23rd, or whatever of 2020, where we went to the commission, and we asked for independence. And they said, Yes. And we're like, well, here's our vision and our mission, and this is who we are. And from the jump, we said, we're anti-racist, right? So this was before, you know, the uproar and the pandemic of George Floyd, where everybody kind of started to like, jump on a bandwagon and say, like, Oh, we're gonna do this. And, you know, we're abolitionists, we're doing this and we're doing that. Whereas our community, based off of the traumas that we've continued to experience, you know, like, all of the murders that have continuously continued to happen throughout our history, really put us in a space to explicitly say, we're going to be anti-racist, and we're going to be unapologetic about it. And we're going to do this right. So there was a lot that had to happen; we had to move out an entire board to like, begin to, to put, you know, some amazing elders and heavy hitters on that board, you know, like, we have Reco Bembry, who started, you know, Late Night across Washington to be able to give kids a safe place to be; you know, we have Carol Peoples-Procter who, you know, went from postal services to becoming a huge support and community for real estate and, you know, property ownership for individuals. We have, you know, Mr. Joe Hailey, who's just, you know, a phenomenal individual who's been able to always support with development and fundraising for, you know, homeless communities and communities who need additional support, you know, and so, you know, Natalie Hester, you know, like, we've got just all of these different individuals who are from community who are really sitting in these spaces, and we have some folks who are not of, you know, necessarily like community, but believe in what needs to happen and are willing to do that work. And so like, I think a huge shout-out goes to our board, for sure, you know, being able to do this work. That was one of the biggest things that needed to happen is that folks on the board needed to be from community, you know, we have one of the families from our school, who's also on our board, right, so like, if you can be on the board, and you know, be doing this work from someone whose child actually attends the school, right. And we know that we're having voices at the table. So our next big push is to make sure that we have children — scholars — on our board, so that their voice can actually be heard, because they're the ones who are in it, right? They're the ones who are doing it, they're the ones who are experiencing it, they're closest to it. And so there's that part, and I think, also being very explicit about being able to create, you know, transformational power dynamics, and that when you have global majority folks at the lead, you know that the folks who are in those spaces when they're really true and authentic, because we know we have the folks, you know, who, you know, elder Mason will say are fuzzy-brained, you know what I mean. Like the folks who, you know, really are just sellouts and are willing to take money and insulate, you know, white leadership and spaces, because they want a big paycheck, instead of actually doing the work to really support community and think about how that paycheck can actually support all of our community, you know, those folks who are thinking about the individual rather than the collective whole. And so our staff is now protected, you know, like, and not just our global majority staff, but our staff who was really striving to be abolitionists in those spaces, too, who are not global majority, who really believe in the work that needs to be done. And like all of our staff is like really digging their heels in, but they know that they can, and they know that they're there in safe places to do that, to be able to have conversations around racism and around equity. And that's not something that's easy to do. That takes a lot of trust. It takes a lot of vulnerability. And it takes a lot of work. So we do a lot of social emotional learning for our adults, first and foremost, because you can't be expecting for children to do something that adults are unwilling to do. And oftentimes we have this very convoluted way of thinking that children need to be the ones bringing something to the table and it's their responsibility to learn or, you know, they should — that we ask so much of them that we as adults oftentimes don't do. And so we really shifted what that actually means and making sure that we're supporting... we're the adults, we're professionals, we went to school for this. So we need to make sure that we're bringing our best selves to the table. And we need to be supporting scholars to be able to safely grow and be able to make mistakes that are not going to be punitive and are not going to damage their future. You know, so I think like, those are the things that are... that's just really important.

TraeAnna Holiday  30:20

Wow, I mean, Baionne, you're just 100% spot on. And just, that's a whole word; that is a whole word. Because I listen to that and I'm like, This is exactly why the work around infusing equity, it has to be collaborative. And one of the things that I really think it has to be is innovative, you know, we talk about the status quo and disrupting what that looks like, from an equity lens and doing it in a way that's going to be transformational in terms of really allowing our... when we just talk about our city, our county, our state, our nation, really pivoting from the things that have felt comfortable for, really, white males over the years, right? And we understand that there's been this ideology that has really grown out of colonialism, that really meant that that was the center of it all, right, was whiteness was at the center of it all. And so understanding the term, even, of "global majority," and how that even shifts the dynamic from folks who have always talked about, you know, the most marginalized communities, the minority, you know, when you think about that, it always is embedded in the language. So, so much of what you are doing and how you even just responded, it showcases in the language, it really takes me to a place of understanding how the scholars are receiving this different learning environment, right. And I know, you know, now it's like, okay, we, you know, 2020, in the school year, this last year, school year, it hit us all really hard, right? I mean, scholars are, you know, on their laptops, I know, my son, just his energy was low. And I was like, you know, I get it, because this is, y'know, you're not, you're built to be in a social environment, right? Like school is one of those constructs that is really built for social environment, social capital, building yourself up in the midst of the whole; but when you're on a screen, you don't feel that, right. And so I think, you know, institutions, educational institutions have had to really be thinking outside the box with how you guys dealt with COVID, right. It was still like, school was important, we couldn't just not have them doing anything. But what are you really looking forward to in this next coming year, as you'll have scholars returning? And really, how have you been seeing the scholars receive all of this very explicit learning and approach to them, you know, growing as individuals in the global majority?

Baionne Coleman  33:02

I think one, it's very different for scholars, right, to... I think there's a lot of questions that pop up, like, almost like in disbelief: We're learning about this? Like, is that okay for you to teach? Like is, you know, can we learn about that? Can we learn about, you know, the history of Indigenous folks in schools? Can we learn African Studies in schools? You know, so, and then, you know, once they get past that point, it's like, How come no one has ever taught us this before? Like, how come no one is having conversations with us about this? So I think that's a part of it. I think, you know, we're gonna continue to do what we do. And I think really being able to push into this space of supporting our scholars with, you know, becoming the researchers that they, you know, are, is really like our next level and really supporting their leadership and spaces based off of, you know, the research that they're doing is really going to be really important to what RVLA continues to be. We want our scholars to be able, you know, like I said earlier, to really critically analyze information and challenge us as the educators in the space, y'know what I mean, like, and to be able to challenge one another. Because if they can do that, in these spaces, then when they step outside of the school, they will know how to challenge the system completely. And how to really think about what it means to actually innovate, and whose history is that and why is that more important than, you know, the history of, you know, their people, you know, our people. So just really being able to address that I think is something that's really important. You know, I think COVID taught us a lot. You know, I think we innately knew that systems of education were not built for us, right? And so just stepping into this place and like having conversations with elders and, you know, even coming in before, you know, the pandemic it's like, most of our schools don't entrench elders in the education of scholars anymore, you know, and we have to do that, you know, we have to get back to elders being able to be in schools and being able to communicate with scholars. Whether you know, it's their grandma or grandpa or not, you know, to like really step into that space and like be able to, like, retain that history, like we're losing a lot of history by this disconnection of, you know, families being broken apart, or families not talking to one another because somebody is upset, and really thinking about what collaborative community actually means; like, my grandma doesn't have to be my blood grandma, but she can be my grandma from down the street, you know, who's looking out for me. And so like really bringing elders back into the fold. So our scholars understand, like, they need to protect our elders, and there's a lot to learn from them. And we need to as you know, the youth in the space and I talk about us too, you know what I mean, like in that space is like, we need to pay homage to these elders, and we have something that we need to continue to push forward for them to be able to see, to be able to be proud of us, you know what I mean, like, so that we can really step into those king and queen roles. And I think that that's something that's really important. So I think, though, that's really what I'm looking forward, really looking forward to, and really beginning to shift the way scholars are able to see themselves: rather than seeing themselves as a deficit, to really see themselves as an asset. And I think, you know, language plays a huge part in that, you know what I mean? Like, understanding that they're like, the global majority, they're not a minority, they're not, you know, marginalized, you know what I mean? Like, being able to understand that, like, it's not English language learning, you know, for our scholars who can speak multiple languages; like, they're multilingual, you know what I mean? Like, let's call it what it is, but oftentimes, we look at all of this beauty around, you know, scholars, and we, you know, it's, it's spoken to as if it's a deficit, you know what I mean? Like, and we do that far too often in the education space. So this really shifting their language and their perception of self, to really be able to step into their leadership roles, and not question who they are, but to be able to walk with their head high and be confident in who they are, and understand that it takes collaborative community. And when I say "collaborative community," I also mean like our white abolitionist families, who are, you know, sending their kids here as well, to really be able to understand like, it's going to take all of us, and it may mean that like our global majority scholars and community is at the lead, and that our white community is really supporting; and what that looks like and being willing to follow for the first time. Yeah, so I think that... I also wanted to touch on something that you said earlier, just briefly, around like the white men, you know what I mean, like having this like very capitalistic society, and I think one of the things that I would challenge our white female listeners to do is to really reconcile around the history that white women have played in a lot of the injustices and inequity in the history of America, you know, like, we think about, you know, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and it started from, you know, a white woman saying that, you know, some — a Black man harmed her, you know what I mean? Like, we think about Rosewood, and again, you know I mean, like all of these different stories throughout history, you know, where, you know, white men have been galvanized to harm Black and Indigenous communities based off of the word of a white woman. And so I think, you know, I would just challenge our white listeners, you know, to really think about, historically what that role is, and how are they going to be accountable to make sure that those same things do not continue to happen, and to really understand that, like, you know, white women are not minorities. You know what I mean, like, and so, you know, and I know that's gonna rub a lot of people the wrong way, but the reality of it is, is that feminism has never benefited me as a Black woman. You know? It never benefited my mother or my sisters as Black women, right? Because before I was a woman, I was Black. And that was the first thing that they saw, you know, and so, I've never been able to benefit from the feminist movement. And also, knowing that I have three Black males that I'm raising, as a mother, there are white women who have more privilege than them sitting in the space of being a male, right, because they are hunted. And so when we talk about that, you know, I think, you know, our white women are gonna really have to reconcile with that, and really sit in that space of understanding like, you're not a minority. You're not powerless, you know, you're not fragile, you know, and they need to really step up into that space to really learn how to also be abolitionist and to be able to reconcile that fact.

TraeAnna Holiday  39:21

You know, I, I... man, I mean, oh... I told my producers, I said, Watch when Baionne comes on honey, because this, we — I don't know that we've ever been able to go this long. So I love the podcast, right? Because it's just long format. It's, we're not rushed here, you know, right? So you can really answer the way you need to answer. And I think that you're just 100% right; even as I said "white men," I was thinking "... and the ways that white women have perpetuated that entire, you know, system of oppression." I think so much of it, when we think about the history of our nation — and I always go back to equity, right? — but when we think about the history of our nation, we are doomed to repeat things if we do not have that Sankofa method of really looking back to know how to move forward. And I know that we talk about that often the Black community; it's talked about in African communities a lot; but the idea of the Sankofa bird, and understanding what that means, if we don't uproot, these things that sometimes and I think over time just made certain folks comfortable. I also think about this in terms of Black people, understanding how they themselves have perpetuated white supremacy, and, you know, anti-Blackness in their own quest for power, quest for money, quest for what they deem is equal or equality, right? Very different than equity. Because for me, equity really is about ownership. And that's really why I was so excited to have you on too, because this school is the only one in Washington State. And I need to do the research because I really wonder how many across the nation we have that are being as explicit as RVLA is with regard to the people that you're hiring, the students that come onboard, the ways that you are teaching all of them to understand their value, to understand their mark that they get to make in the world. Because I think we need more and more of these institutions. We've talked about this, that there's been blockages to ensure that, hey, that doesn't get replicated. And that to me is always been the struggle, right? I mean, in Black community, we say we were never given anything, we have to fight for everything. Right? What are some of the things that you're really hoping for in terms of RVLA? Being able to share in how you guys are doing this? I know they blocked the charter school, you know, expansion. But what are some of the things that come to mind for you? Because as you're talking, it's just so clear to me that, you know, there's levels of this, right? There's levels where some may feel threatened, because, Wait a minute, each scholar comes with a dollar on their heads, right? And, you know, public schools want those dollars, right? I mean, our regular elementary and middle schools and high schools, they want those dollars. And they say, well, you know, we want this for all students, not just those who are going to charter schools. But the problem is, is that it's not happening for all students in those institutions. So what are some of the ways that you're really hoping that the model you guys are creating can be replicated so that we're really building more and more scholars to understand their value, their worth, their history? And really break down what you just said there; it's teaching them the truth. What are some of the ways that you see that?

Baionne Coleman  42:57

Yeah, well, that's another loaded question. Right. I think, you know, going back to that Sankofa model, as a community, we have to, you know, to your point, like really reconcile with the fact that we have been ingrained in a culture of individualism, right, which is not culturally or historically what the majority of us have come from across different cultures. It has always been very community-based, right. And we have been, we've been programmed to believe that we need to be individualistic, and it's about me rather than the us. And so that has meant that we step over one another when we should not be. We should be pulling one another along until folks can like walk, right? Like, we need to be pushing folks in wheelchairs, if it needs to be that, right? We need to get back to making sure that everyone in our community is actually winning, instead of just, you know, a few people. And what that means is, is that we also have to talk about like, you know, the issues around epigenetics, right, like what has happened historically to us as individuals, you know, for us to be able to break some of those histories, right? Like, if I don't know what's happened to my mother, then I'm doomed to repeat what has — you know what I mean, like to go through those same situations that happened to my mother, and my daughter is doomed to repeat those, you know what I mean; my sons are doomed to repeat those. So we have to have some very honest conversations around what has happened to us, just the traumas, the joys, you know, all of it. Like we need to be able to have conversations and sometimes, as a community, we don't even talk about those celebrations and those joys as much as we need to. We don't celebrate those as big as we need to; we need to be better about celebrating and just, you know, lifting people up in those spaces. And we need to be able to have some hard conversations as a Black community about the different traumas that we've gone to, you know, gone through so that we can begin to break those cycles that continuously happen in our history, in our culture, and in our own families.  I also think, you know, we have to really... like the community piece is so important. When you're a part of community, you're held accountable. And oftentimes when we are not held accountable to community, we are doomed to perpetuate the myth of white supremacy. And I explicitly say "the myth of white supremacy" because I think when we just say "white supremacy," it allows for folks to think that they are supreme in a different way, right. And it's a myth, right? And so, you know, we're doomed to repeat that, we're doomed to continue to perpetuate it. And so I think community has to hold us accountable. Right, like that is one of the things that I know very true for RVLA is that our elders in the community are in my ear, you know what I mean? Like, they're going to hold me accountable. If I slip up and say the wrong thing, they're going to pull me to the side or not pull me to the side and give me what I need right then and there, right? You know, my father does the same thing. He'll listen to this podcast, because he'll find it whether I tell him I'm on it or not. And he'll give me critical feedback to say, you know, this is what you need to be thinking about or whatever, right? And so we have to hold one another accountable. And we have to hold our white counterparts accountable too. And so I think what that looks like is we're... one of the biggest things that we're trying to do with RVLA is we're trying to expand, you know, we've had so much community come to us and say, we want an elementary school, our children need this sooner, right? Like we need our community to be leading in that spaces. We've had national funders that we have had conversations with who have granted us money for expansion, to say, yes, you guys have a key model, it needs to happen, you guys are the right leadership in the space to do it, you have a true, you know, authentic relationship within community, and are of community to make this happen. And the next part is really going to be for community to really rally around and really support what that expansion looks like at the commission level, which is our state level, right? Like to be able to go in and say like, yes, we want this, and we're not just asking you for it, but like we're demanding it, you know what I mean? Like we're demanding for our school to be able to, you know, be accredited for another five years, you know, we're demanding that an elementary, you know, be able to be expanded, because the reality of it is, is that no other schools in Washington State that are charter schools can be opened up, if we don't start having community actually rally behind and say, explicitly, we need our politicians to open up that window, and to, you know, allow us to get to the 40 schools, and to also say, and note, the rest of the schools need to be global majority-led explicitly from folks from community. Right. So, you know, I think what we have some conversations with some of the other schools across the nation, you know, who are doing some of this work. And there's some phenomenal schools, you know, who are doing it. And so we have communications with them, we try to like share resources, we explicitly seek out global majority curriculum writers, you know, who are not the big curriculum writers, you know, but who are historians, you know what I mean, like, who are phenomenal at what they do, to make sure that like, we're thinking strategically about how to put our money back into the community. And we're like really pushing with what that looks like to make sure that like, this money that is coming from community then goes back into community, right. And so like, that's some of the work of like our nonprofit, me and JC's nonprofit, the Global Majority Consortium, is like, how do we continue to support entrepreneurs and businesses to be able to create paths for like, we need a Black transportation company, I can tell you that. We need it yesterday. There are only three transportation companies in Washington State that will be supplied for reimbursement for federal dollars for education, right? All three of them are white-led. And so when we think about that, who are they busing? They're busing our babies, right, they... and they're not necessarily even handling our children with care, when they're busing them, right. They're willing to call the police on them because they're standing up, right? Not understanding like, what that trauma is, if you tell a scholar you're calling the police on them. So like, that's the other work like we need community to rise up and fill these roles, so that that money can come back into community so we can really be thinking about how we're strategically closing the opportunity wealth gap. So if there's folks out there who want to open up a bus business, and there are some funders who are listening, who want to support that, like, reach out, please. But you know, we're always willing to share information with other folks. I will say we're also very intentional about who we share information with, because I refuse to allow for the hard work that our staff has done in thinking about how to decolonize and what needs to be done and how to support, you know, community, and putting community at the forefront, to then be appropriated by folks who want to be able to say that they're doing something that they're not actually doing, right. Like we know folks who read books and take classes and regurgitate what they've heard. There will be people who listen to this podcast and regurgitate what they hear and say like, Yes, I'm an abolitionist. I'm this I'm that. We'll even have, you know, fuzzy-brained Black folks, you know what I mean? Like, who sit in these spaces and say, Yes, I'm about that, you know what I mean? Like, and who aren't really about it, right. And so, I'm, we're very intentional about the information that we share, and how we share it and who we share it with. Because those folks who are not really about this life, you know, they're very harmful to our children, they're very harmful to our community. And so I think like, that goes back to like really holding folks accountable to say, like, No, we're not, we're never going to allow you to do that. You know what I mean, like, No, we're not going to share information, to call you out for what it is, right? And so our community really needs to get behind really supporting spaces of being able to say like, these spaces are anti-racist, and being able to say, okay, they got an anti-racist accreditation, you know what I mean? So, like, we know, as community, we can go there. And I think, you know, like, for us, like, that's what the Global Majority Consortium is doing, is saying, like, we're going to recognize the communities, the community leaders, and we're going to recognize the organizations that are truly anti-racist, and let community know, like, these are the folks that are anti-racist, or, you know, on their journeys and their paths to anti-racism. And these are folks that are appropriating and capitalizing off of community, and we don't need to send our children to those spaces. We don't need to, we don't need to serve those businesses, you know what I mean, like our money, our hard earned money that we have. And I think like, that's how we begin to think about how we do this work as a state and how we do this work, how we do this work nationally, you know, to really become like that really tight-knit community that's holding folks accountable. So I think there's a lot of work to do. I think, you know, we're doing it, we're constantly; but I think, you know, the biggest thing is like, community also has to put their money where their mouth is, like, we can't complain, we have to do. And we have to support this work. And so for community who really wants to support RVLA, like, I'd say, reach out, do a Panther talk, donate if you can, you know, write letters of recommendation for the school for expansion for, you know, renewal, because all of these different little things that folks don't necessarily know about the nuances, that's how the schools that we have that are, you know, for community end up getting closed, right? Is because they're under the radar and folks aren't listening. And "Well, that's not really my problem, they'll find somebody else to do it." Like, as soon as you hear about it, and you have an inclination to say, that's not right, you need to do something about it. And we all need to do something about it. But we can't be those innocent bystanders who were just like, "Somebody'll take care of it," you know, like, No, we got to take care of it. We have to take back our schools, we have to take back our children, we have to take back our history.

TraeAnna Holiday  52:51

Yeah, absolutely. Take back our schools. Take back our history. You never cease to amaze me, honestly, Baionne, you never do and, and you always really come through in a way that is so authentic, you know, I just appreciate you because I think we're in this weird space right now, where, you know, still, there's hard things that need to be said, that are still new to people, right? It's like the concept of it is still something that folks are like, Wait a minute, what? Like, what is that? And I gotta dissect it, I got to understand that more and learn more about it for myself. Right. And to me, you know, I've been talking to so many different folks, and understanding how this new information that maybe many of us in Black community grew up understanding, right, is... has a way of being either that breakthrough moment for someone, or you see the retreat, right? Of like, "Uhh, that's just too different for me," or, you know, you get the terms around, "Oh, that's, you know, these are radical ideas," or what, you know, you start hearing the ways that people absorb it. So I just thank you for being able to say it, because so much of this is really about real community stepping up. And there's so many different ways that I have said this, you know, in many different formats. But I think you're absolutely right, when we talk about the ways that systems have been created without... with this huge void of equity. Right? Well, what are we doing to be very intentional, to infuse equity into those systems? And that means that we all have to be baring ourselves out there and putting it out on the table. So much of what you said earlier in terms of the sacrifice that you have to take in order to even do this work. Because community is family, right? And then I'm like, you know, I've told my sons all the time, Sons, y'all know Mom loves you; I'm just on the move because it's like necessary for me right now, right? And having those elders that hold us accountable. And you're right, everybody who is, you know, I've heard many of our elders say, "Well, everybody who's my age is not an elder," right? And so when we talk about that distinguishing factor, it's important for us to be able to gauge what it looks like, to gauge the understanding of it. So I just appreciate your authenticity today during this interview, because so much of what you said, is just what needs to be said right now. I think we're in this transformative time of really identifying how we got here, and then understanding how we move forward. And I think the model that you're, you know, you and your staff and others have created at RVLA, your approach as the CEO to be very explicit about who you're sharing information with, how you're sharing knowledge about how you guys got to where you are today, and then looking at it in terms of this national connection, right? And for some, even international; you've been doing things with folks over in Kenya and having these conversations. So really, this is the work that's required of us right now. And I just can't thank you enough for sharing your experience as RVLA CEO, and a community member, a Garfield grad, you know, a UW grad, right here with us. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to make sure our audience hears today?

Baionne Coleman  56:26

Yeah, I think the last thing that I would really put a plug in for is to make sure that like our traditional district partners understand, you know, I can't speak for every, you know, school, but I will say I think the majority of our charter school leaders as well, but I can speak for RVLA and say that we're not in competition with [you], you know what I mean? Like this is really about, you know, if our district schools want to know how we're doing something, or why we're doing something, or even about the practices that we're doing, like I am more than willing to share that information. Because what that means is really creating equity in those spaces as well. Right, like really supporting the global majority scholars who are sitting in those spaces who, you know, like when we look at the data are not necessarily being served, right. So there's no competition there, right? Like, these are our children. These are our babies. Like, that's what it comes down to, for us. And so I think there are a lot of leaders in those spaces who are having conversations, you know, with RVLA explicitly really to do the work. And it just needs to be very clear, you know what I mean? Like, this isn't a us-against-them. This is a, you know, people talk about charter schools, and they talk about traditional district schools. And I think the reality of it is, you know, is our public schooling system needs to put private schools out of business, right? Like, we need to be so phenomenal between traditional schools and charter schools and learning from one another and supporting one another and giving options to families based off of charter schools and traditional district schools, to be able to say, there's no need for a private school. And so those folks who are paying for private school education can then pour back that money into our community, right? And so I think that that's really important. It's, we need to stop, we need to get out of this us-against-them and trying to find these little individualistic, you know, small cult-like followings to say like, "Oh, we only do this, we only do that;" and really understand that like, if we're putting Black and Indigenous children at the center of what needs to be corrected in our nation, that charter schools and traditional schools — public schooling — needs to be beneficial for all of those children. And so we need to all do our part to come together and make that happen.

TraeAnna Holiday  58:45

Wow, absolutely. Snaps all around, snaps all around. I did better than I thought because I did not bawl. [laughter] I did not shed my tears. I mean, me and Baionne, oh man. Yeah, like, just... I know, we're equally so proud of each other. And I think that every time I get an opportunity to just sit with you and talk and engage like this, I walk away a better human being, a better person. And I love what you said earlier about no matter what you do, folks being able to see the God in you. And I think that that is so key to how I'm pouring into my sons and how I'm pouring into this work right. And really being a community means we have to be that example of that a lot of times for a lot of different people. So I just appreciate you for being a great example of that for so many community members and so many folks who are just seeing you flourish in what your purpose in this world is. It's very clear. I'm so glad that you, you know, left the law alone and brought it all over here to education because we are all the better for it. If folks do want to plug in, get to, you know, know more about RVLA, check in with you, how do they do that? How do they connect?

Baionne Coleman  1:00:02

Yeah, I will give folks my work phone number: it's (206) 496-4573. They can also check out our website, myrvla.org. And directly like you can email anybody on our team directly from there. You can also reach out to me directly at baionne.coleman@myrvla.org. And if they're interested in, like the opportunity and wealth gap, thinking about how to, you know, close that or need any supports with like consulting and whatnot, they can also reach out to globalmajorityconsortium.com. So, lots of ways to connect, and I mean, if you type in "Baionne" you'll probably find a LinkedIn page, you know, or whatever. So yeah.

TraeAnna Holiday  1:00:46

Aw, amazing. Baionne Coleman, I am so grateful that you just graced our podcast with your presence, with your knowledge, with your passion, and your integrity for the work that you do. We are all the better for it. You guys heard it right here from Miss Baionne Coleman, you know, clearly seeing herself as part of solutions by not just plugging into ones that are there, but crafting them; blazing trails around what it looks like for our children to be educated in a system that is decolonized. A system that is giving them the truth, history that they need, that is also pouring into their brilliance, and giving them the understanding that they are brilliant in the first place. I get so elated with the guests that we bring here on the podcast, because honestly, we are all learning from all of these guests. And I hope you guys have tuned in today and really taken away some of the tools and gems that Baionne dropped today. Share them with your friends and family, share this podcast with them. I'm just elated that I know you, and that you are here with us today. So thank you so much for joining us. And thank you guys out there for listening.

Baionne Coleman  1:01:59

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm humbled.

TraeAnna Holiday  1:02:02

Well, we will have another episode. You guys know we'll be dropping them soon. Just excited that you guys were able to listen to this and get some knowledge today. Stay tuned to Equity Rising, as we, you know, continue to bring you guys guests that are phenomenal in their own right and bringing us a real equity lens to all the work that needs to be done. Thank ya'll for listening.