Equity Rising S2 : Episode 9

equity in tech, wellness, and beyond
with heru tchaas amen

As a diversity, equity, and inclusive professional and IT analyst at one of Seattle's largest retailers, Heru Tchaas Amen is actively working to create, expand, and sustain high-level director and C-suite opportunities for Black people and other people of color.

With a full beard, long locks, and an Afrocentric wardrobe, Heru doesn't show up as your typical IT guy—and that's by design. "That became an asset," he tells Trae as he describes how looking differently, thinking differently, acting differently, and advocating for solutions and activations that go against the white, male norm has been a hallmark of his success.

This week's Chime In comes from Heru's collaborator Samut Abata and gives us more insight into the work that they do separately and together in the realm of spiritual and physical wellness. Visit Heru's coaching, teaching, wellness site for more on that aspect of his equity work.

This episode was produced by Julia Drachman, edited by Alex Place, and mastered by Josh Berl. Description was written by Laura Cassidy. Transcribed by Erika Hope.

Transcript

Samut Abata  00:12

...Always looking to your your core. And a big part of that is his training as a Qigong practitioner, you know, so he has really focused in on what is the energy, you know, of you as a person? And what are you looking to achieve? And how can you energize those possibilities? And so he's always seeing possibilities. He's always seeing the potential of people, and then working tirelessly to move that forward.

TraeAnna Holiday  00:45

Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Equity Rising Season Two. We are focusing on some equity change makers that are local to our region, to our state. And I'm really thankful that we are getting some amazing guests. And this next guest is equally amazing, if not more amazing, doing so much great work and community, Heru Tchaas Amen. You are showcasing equity in a bunch of different ways. And so I'm so glad to have you with us.

Heru Tchaas Amen  01:14

Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

TraeAnna Holiday  01:17

Right on, well, first things first, we love to start off with the same question for all of our guests - and we get some wide variety of answers to this one - how are you taking care of yourself?

Heru Tchaas Amen  01:31

You mean, like during this - this pandemic, or the COVID crisis and all of the things that are going on in the world?

TraeAnna Holiday  01:39

That's correct. But I feel like it started off because of COVID. But it's continuing because of so many more things. So we just love to hear how people are taking care of themselves.

Heru Tchaas Amen  01:49

Oh, well, I'm focused on holistic health. So I really take time, taking care of my diet, I make sure I stay away from processed foods, I eat pretty clean fruits and vegetables - I'm vegan by choice - and so I make sure that you very clean wholesome foods, and I supplement regularly. So I use a lot of different supplementation to support brain function to support, you know, my immune system to support just general health and wellness and supplement my body as well. I also, you know, practice and teach Qigong -which is a an ancient Chinese art for cultivating lifeforce, energy, and Qi and building the health - focusing around the five energy organ system, exercise regularly, lots of meditation, really taking time to focus on the self, and experience that peace and cultivate inner peace with all things as I deal with day to day issues and opportunities for growth.

TraeAnna Holiday  02:45

Wow, that is pretty awesome. There's a lot there for us to be able to unpack. I know as my team and I, we were talking about, you know, how are we sourcing equity changemakers this season. And one of the great things is that I've been able to say you know what, I know a lot of them, right? I'm around a lot of folks that do equity in their work. And I'm so excited because you work for a pretty significant retailer here. And you are actually leading diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts there. So I kind of want to start with what it is you do for work because I think that you as a Black man, you have a very unique perspective on how a corporation that large can be looking at diversity, equity, and inclusion. So let's just start with some of the work that you do there. When you hear DEI, I mean, what does that mean to you?

Heru Tchaas Amen  03:40

Diversity, equity, and inclusion means so much to me. Like you said, I work for a fortune 50 company in the in the local community. We've been here for several years. I'm an IT analyst, I just moved actually into an IT Training analyst position. And so I'm responsible for the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiative that we're implementing at our corporation in the IT division. And our goal really is to, to focus on hiring Black and brown people, but also retaining Black and brown people, not only at the individual contributor level, but moving them up to allowing people access to the ability to move up to senior leadership teams, and to be able to guide the ship if you will, and have representation on all levels and all facets of the work versus just having people working at the front desk or working as low level analysts or answering the phones as a CSR or something like that. We want to see people in senior VP leadership positions, see people at - Black and brown people at the director level positions, see them managing teams leading teams and creating and providing equity in the workspace. So our goal really is to open that that door up and to to source and to recruit people of color - Black people in particular and Black women as well - to come into that space and to lead these initiatives because there's so much talent across the world that we're not tapping into and if you walk into my workspace right now: one of our analysts came through on a tour and they said, you know, it feels like an Irish Pub. And so we wanted to really change that narrative. So it felt inclusive to all people and people had access to be able to take care of their families to be able to be professionals in this workspace in the IT area, which is traditionally known to be a white male dominated space.

TraeAnna Holiday  05:20

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You know, you say, working in IT and seeing you here, you know: beard, locs, the glasses... it doesn't traditionally ring IT. How have you dealt with some of the diversity issues at your workplace as a personal kind of measure that may actually fuel the ways that you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, to now be leading those efforts?

Heru Tchaas Amen  05:48

Well, my choice and the way that I look is it was very, it was on purpose. It was by design, I decided to grow dreadlocks and then to step into the corporate field. A lot of people that I had contact with or conversations with told me that, you know, to be a professional, especially in specifically in IT and having beard and dreadlocks and the tattoos and things like that was going to be a hindrance to that. And I took it as a challenge. So as I was going to school, to learn IT and security measures, I let my hair grow, I let my beard grow, and got a job as an entry level CSR, you know, customer service rep for in house and worked in that department for about a year, looked around the workspace to figure out where I went to land. Decided I wanted to work with the point of sale systems in particular went to work on PCI on some of the security measures around payment systems and things like that. So I really focused on getting accreditation around that, making sure my certifications were good, gaining experience in the field, and eventually landed on one of the teams. That was a second level team. And I was responsible for the entire payment card audit systems for our POS team, worked on that in the audit systems for a while and made some some revolutionary changes inside of our department, the way that we do audits that were they were heavily manual. So we automated a lot of those systems. And because of that experience, I was able to then pivot over into the security field, which is where my heart was, when I first started looking at it as a career path. And I noticed that there were no Black people in there, and particularly no Black people with beards and dreadlocks and things like that. So I kind of turned heads when I walked through the office. But that was - that became an asset, I was different, I thought differently at a different perspective at a different way of solving problems, too, that proved to be beneficial to my teams. And as we - as I integrated those teams and stepped into those spaces, people start to rely on my problem solving ability. And so I was gradually able to move up. Always been a teacher in my life, so I taught in multiple different careers. And so I was looking to move eventually from the the security space into, you know, a space that I could help people become better at their jobs. And so the opportunity finally popped open for me to move into an IT training position I moved over there and that's where the DEI effort really began to take shape. Because as I was tasked with division wide training opportunities for our entire IT division, I noticed that there was an absence of anything that was focused around unconscious bias, equity, diversity, and inclusion. And in fact, our inclusion mindset was really around how IT interacted with our business model versus how Black and brown people interacted and were included in the workspace and women were included in the workspace. And so we were able to pivot around that and find some solutions to support training around the DEI efforts.

TraeAnna Holiday  08:36

Everybody's stories are just so impressive and inspiring to me. And when you see so many people, and I've heard so many people talk about how, you know, look, the corporate space wasn't for me, I was, you know, hitting these glass ceilings, you're actually sharing your personal story and how you started at a entry level and then really worked your way up to where you are today. When you think about some of the efforts that you're doing in your role there and bringing on more Black and brown folks, you know, what is really the end result of that? Like what is the goal besides just diversifying the workforce? What are some of the things that really drive you in terms of making sure those numbers are equitable?

09:21

I want to see people be able to take care of their families and we live out here in Pacific Northwest, we know that IT is a big part of what we do. And it's lucrative, you know, you can make a lot of money you can take care of your family, you can support your family, you can put your brain to work. And so my goal really is as I exit - as I start to begin to exit the corporate world is to create a pathway for people that look like me to shape the workspace and also these companies that you know - the company I'm talking about - I shop there and so I want the company to really be a representative of me and my personality as well not just you know, to put it bluntly, middle aged or older white men. So, you know, the buying group needs to represent that the vendors that we associate with need to represent that diversity, the merchandise that we carry needs to represent that diversity. We want to see equitable application across the entire economy or ecosphere of the company that I work for. So my goal really is to change the landscape and dynamic of that company, so that all people can then step into that space, feel comfortable, feel confident, be able to take care of their family, provide for their family, purchase homes, and things like that - live healthy lives. And to shape shift the landscape of the entire corporate structure that I'm involved in. You know, there's a lot of Black and brown people that aren't getting chances when they walk in the door because we're not we are assumed to be less than. We are assumed to not know as much. We are assumed to not have as much experience and a lot of times we don't have as much experience, because experience isn't granted to us, which is fine. And we can kick down those doors. But I want to make sure that those doors are already shifting and open for for people that look like me to be able to slide in.

TraeAnna Holiday  11:08

I just think it's so important. I've heard people talk about getting in the door and leaving their foot in the in the crack of the door, right? Like keeping that door cracked so that folks can get in. An d I think it's really important when we think about equity for us at King County Equity Now, we're always thinking a sense of agency and ownership. It isn't really about equality necessarily, but it is about access to opportunity. And I really appreciate your answers and the role that you're taking up there at that retailer because it's so necessary. You know, you're one of the first guests that we've had on Equity Rising that is bringing this kind of understanding of how it's done in the corporate world from your perspective, in terms of this season and even our first season. We didn't have anybody who was really focused on doing this work really in a corporate space. The ways that it plays out, I can only imagine, I'm going to ask you about how this works interdepartmentaly, right? Because when you're thinking about just something you said there - not just having people come in as a community service representative, right, a CSR or something like that but - or customer service rep - but really finding ways to work within all of the departments so that they're gaining the knowledge that they need to start changing their processes and strategies and approaches around "Hey, we too need diversity on this team. Man, we too need it." It's like an internal look. But how does that work interdepartmentally in your role?

Heru Tchaas Amen  12:42

Well, what we've found in taking a look at the studies and supporting numbers, Harvard did a study. It talked about time to market and problem solving in the workspace. And we found out that on diverse teams, we solution faster, we create better products, we problem solved quicker. The time to market then is quicker, which in the workspace of IT is highly valuable and important. To be able to solution creatively and quickly... to be able to to get that solution out to market so members or people who are buying or shopping with you don't see the problem or pain points... to make sure that we provide high quality solutions to business issues is highly valuable. So what we do, then, by having more diverse workforce is have a different perspective and a different application of how to problem solve. You know, we're going to look at that that problem in a different method, you're gonna see a solution in a different light, and be able to share that. And with diversity, equity, inclusion, it's important to have the inclusionary practice of listening to those people who don't look like you or don't think like you so you can really understand a problem. One of my favorite quotes is that "To properly define a problem is to solve a problem. If you can define the problem properly, you can solve it that much quicker." So having different perspectives allow you really to define the problem. Once you've perfectly see the problem, then you can solution the problem because the solution will present itself to you based on the understanding of the problem. So we need more people that don't think the same way. If everyone thinks just like I do, or just like you do, they're only going to see one side of the problem. We need people to see all of the different angles of the problem. And so that means we have to bring other people to the table that don't look, think, or act or have the same background as we do.

TraeAnna Holiday  14:30

Well, I can tell you this much: one of the things that's really resonating with me, is while I was in corporate space at an advertising firm, you know, day one of joining this team, it was like they were like, "Oh, we have a diversity and inclusion team. We need you to be on our DI team." And they didn't have equity back then it wasn't DEI. It was just DI, right. It was really interesting because no one really knew who I was yet, but the fact that I was a Black woman, right? And I come, you know, I'm dressing you know, whatever, right? They're just like, "Oh, who is this girl? Like, you need to be on this team." And I remember feeling this real sense of, you know, well, maybe I can showcase some of the things that I can do with this team, you know, right, like, maybe really implement some things. But I did feel instantly like tokenism. Right, and it was an Asian woman who came to me and said, "You should be on this team." And she was so fired up, she had been on the team and she had been working for this firm for many years. And so I really grew to really love her and, you know, respect her and what she was doing and how she did her work there. But also, I remember feeling like, this is about us doing like fried chicken at, you know, Black History Month. And, you know, sombreros and tacos for, you know, Cinco de Mayo, and it wasn't very in depth. And just listening to your answers. I'm going, "Wow, no, this is something that's very in depth, and that's being looked at in a way that is multifaceted. And it isn't surface level." How have you had to deal with any of that kind of idea that, "hey, we're just doing a good thing, because we're doing this at all?"

Heru Tchaas Amen  16:19

Well, when it first started around that diversity space in IT here, you know, there was that trepidation of being the Black person on the committee to have conversations around Black problems, right. What was fortunate in my case is that it happened organically. I've been in the company - I've been there now for 11 years. But while I was working there, I gained a reputation of not only a problem solver focused on my job, but also a problem solver just in general. And so as far as building relationships happened, people started gravitating to me to have conversations about their equity issues, be it based on gender, or age, or race. And so several people just kind of came out of the woodwork and had, you know, one on one conversations like, "Hey, I don't know how to fix this, what do you think we should do?" And so we have it, we have what we call an open door policy. So we can talk to anyone at any management level at any time. I'm just crazy enough to do it. Right? There's a lot of us that won't go have those conversations, because you can be ostracized or you can be, you know - there's that inherent bias and that unconscious bias that happens. So people get cut out of communications when they do step up sometimes. But you know, I was not the type of person who took a job because I was afraid to lose it. So I took the challenge on and went and had conversations with some of my senior leaders and talked to them about the problems that we're having. There's about 15 people that approached me and so I brought those the problems of 15 people to senior leadership, and said, "Hey, here's what's happening, do something, fix it." Right? And so they said, "Well, what do you think we should do?" You know, and I gave them some suggestions. And I watched as they floundered. They had some some huge struggles. I knew that, inherently, our motto is to do the right thing. But sometimes these people in leadership, like I said before, they can only see it through their eyes, they don't know what the right thing is. And to make a long story short, I don't want to bore you with all the details, but I ended up taking a leave of absence because I saw nothing happen and I started looking for other employment. After about three months away, I came back and just to see the lay of the land to see if I should stay there or not. And I came back and looked around and found the new position and realized that there was now space to create an initiative for DEI. And so when I stepped into the role, I actually championed it and had a conversation with some colleagues and said, "Hey, let's make this happen." And so we started reaching out to resources that were in this in the DEI space locally, some Black-owned - minority-owned - businesses to come in and give us an audit of our systems and say, "Look, what are you guys doing right and what are you doing wrong?" And so we brought in a consultant who had a conversation with our people, and asked the tough questions and got feedback. And we came up with a plan and we took it. We took diversity, equity, and inclusion on like an IT problem versus, you know, this feelgood issue. And so because we approached it from that angle, I haven't seen a lot of the pushback. You know, there are the microaggressions - there are things like, "Oh, you're really passionate about this idea" versus, you know, "Look, this is our bottom line and how we improve our bottom line." But we have those conversations and like I said, I'm crazy enough to also confront the behavior. So we have conversations in space around confronting the behavior with VPs, senior VPs, you know, acting VPS as well, and I've had to call them on the carpet. You know, and what's fortunate about the company I work for is that when I do call them on the carpet, they have to listen so I'm sitting there in space and and someone is judging a person based on the color of their skin and saying that they're not qualified for a role and I'm like, "Well, let's look at their resume and scrub all the details out that show you that they're a minority" or so called quote unquote "a minority" or that they're, you know, a woman or they have, you know, some some age difference or gaps in their resume and just look at the the body of work and what they can do - their experience or their understanding. And when we scrubbed those resumes and take a generic look at those resumes, we see that people from diverse backgrounds are more qualified than a lot of the white male candidates that we've been hiring in the past. And so we have to do the right thing if we're going to follow our vision. And so I'm holding people accountable. You know, and I look at myself as the guard there, I'm going to hold you accountable to do what you said. Your mission is to do the right things, we're going to do the right thing every time for the right reasons. And at the end of the day, that comes back in the in the form of, you know, equity, which is, you know, getting our making our stockholders happy, right? What if we were to liquidate our company right now our stockholders would be happy because of what the stock is valued at. If we increase our equity, we increase our bottom line as well so we make the stockholders happy, which is another value that we have. So it's all tied into our values and our mission statement. And you know, I have fun challenging the status quo, obviously, that's why I have the dreadlocks, like I said, that's why I walk around looking the way I do in those corporate spaces, because it's fun to make people look.

TraeAnna Holiday  20:58

Like "Oh, man, you know, this guy is the one that you guys have leading your DEI team." I can only imagine. I really appreciate this perspective, again, it's unique for us over here at Equity Rising and for the whole ecosystem that we're kind of really building by showcasing to the audience that there's so many different people that are really equity changemakers of their own right. And this, this brings me to some of the things that you mentioned in the beginning. When you're talking about health and wellness, I know that you're also in the community really doing equity work in that regard, that is about health and wellness, about our spiritual equity. So I want to just kind of dive in a little bit with that and ask you some questions around, you know, what was it that made you say, "You know what, this is something that I'm going to be doing. I'm already living this lifestyle. But now I'm going to be making sure that, you know, people around me - my circle - that it grows and that I'm bringing this out to community." You mentioned some of the things that you do around, you know, herbs, and just Qigong and all of that, you've been working to now be an instructor of Qigong, and you're bringing that out into community. And this for me, I feel like, is another unique piece that we just don't have at all, because it takes a very specific approach to be out in community now making sure that people understand this practice. Help us understand what was the push for you? What was that driver for you to say this is something I know I need to be doing?

Heru Tchaas Amen  22:41

Well, that's a big question. When I started this, this walk around, developing and understanding my spirituality and healing my body, I'm aligning my body and spirit. There was a reoccurring theme. You know, in African spirituality, particularly Kemetic spirituality, there are the 11 laws of Ma'at. But that that law of Ma'at really supports the entire structure with the understanding of interdependence - that I need you and you need me - and that the highest act of love is to fulfill that need. In the the Qigong practice, we have the same foundational understanding of Zen Du Du Ren which means "Heal myself, so that can heal and help others." So it's important then to understand it as I gained - I began to understand it as I gained information. I gained knowledge... I gained the ability to to help myself. I couldn't keep it for myself, that would be selfish, that would be the American way, right? So really, if I was going to return to my indigenous practice - my ancient ancestors way of life - my goal in life then was not just to heal myself, my goal was to heal myself so that I can help others. And so the more I learned, than the more I get to give, and by doing that, I perfect myself. And so sharing Qigong, sharing meditation, sharing how to eat to live, how to supplement properly, how to deal with or transcend stress... those types of things are going to help the people around me and if I help the people around me - not only, you know, the people that look like me - but those people that don't look like me, and that think that they're my adversaries, if I help those people, I can heal those people and make my entire community a better place in which to live. And that, to me, takes me back to true equity, you know - really releasing the mindset that we've been kind of taught here in America to only think about ourselves - to only be emotionally attached to our well being individually and not be attached to the well-being of our communities, our families, and those people that are across the freeway, are on the other side of the tracks, or the other side of the city, or in a different city from us, but reach out to those people who are going through and struggling and not really understanding the value of life and helping people understand the value of life and have a higher quality of life that they live. So yes, as I got more involved in the practice, I could only teach, I could only share, I could only give. And then, you know, with a meditative practice that I subscribe to, as I meditate, one of the ends of the meditation is really to see yourself receiving a blessing from the Creator. And that blessing for me, that I've always seen, is seeing my people, seeing my community healthy and happy, seeing my community flourish. And so to do that, I have to do work. And so I've picked up the work, you know, and decided  that that's the way I'm supposed to live.

TraeAnna Holiday  25:30

Yeah, it really is so different from I think the, you know, westernized mindset of kind of do for self, you know, it's, it's on everybody else to strap up their own bootstraps, you know, these ideas that we really, I think, are starting to see in so much of this wave of equity movement, right, that it doesn't work, right. We talk about in community, oftentimes - we talk about treating the whole person, and what does that really look like? And I'm hearing from you that so much of it is about the inside and not just the outside, right. It's not just about making sure that they have a livable wage income, which you are doing in the corporate space, or making sure that young people understand the pathways that are available to them, so that they're not picking up a gun. But I think there's this entire facet that is really being created to understand that there's really - I love to think of it like this - it's a puzzle. And there's pieces to this puzzle that must be there in order for us to fully be treating the whole person. We talk a lot about how you know George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmad Arbery, so many more countless others, that experience police violence or brutality. In a Ahmad Arbery's case, it wasn't the police but yet still, these acts of discrimination that mean that Black folks are dying, right? And how that ties into people understanding the ideas around treating the whole person at this point. So much of what you just described, really is a part of that piece that may be missing from some of the mindsets of those that are out there on the frontlines doing work, because a lot of things are done in an outward way, and maybe not so much in an inward way. What is some of the things you would love to tell folks that are out there that are looking at this system, right - dismantling this system. And from your perspective and equity lens that you have, what are some of the things that you think is really important for them to also be able to carry with them as they look to dismantle things or change things or make real progress for all people?

Heru Tchaas Amen  27:47

I guess one of the main things is really understanding from a historical context, what it is that we're looking for. When we were kidnapped and human trafficked and enslaved here in this country, one of the first things that happened is that, you know, we were separated from our families. We were separated from one another. We weren't allowed to speak our languages, were not allowed to worship the way that we would like to, or we had ancestrally worshipped. And we were taught that we were animals - beasts of burden - meant to be bred or to slave away or toil at hard labor and things of that nature. And then we were taught and given this language, from our oppressor, in an oppressive way. We were given religion in an oppressive way and mind state. And those things that we were given, were really designed to keep us with a perspective that we are animals by nature. And we need to know that we're not animals by nature - that we are divine by nature. And so what happened with that dynamic is when we were taught - our people were taught that we were animals by nature, there was an automatic caste system built up by our oppressors saying that our oppressors were now the humans  who we had to aspire to try to be like as we moved out of our primitive mind state. And so what we're doing a lot of times in these spaces, when we're pushing for equity, and we're pushing for, you know, reform is we're pushing to be treated or to be respected, like a human being. From the perspective of African spirituality, I am not a human being - I'm a divine being. And so the underlying problem is that if I align myself as a mere human being and say that, you know, I'm human by by nature, then I align myself with a lot of inadequacies, a lot of problems, a lot of limitations, and a lot of flaws. And I automatically set myself up for failure. We didn't understand and this country doesn't understand that aligning ourselves with that human or animalistic mind state is really the problem. If we seek for our divineness and understand that we were made in the image of peace that nothing can disturb, we have access to our full mental capabilities. We can problem solve effectively. We can begin to see the win win. If we align with our emotions - our anger, our frustrations, you know, our rage, our disappointment, our sadness - automatically, our brains are dumping chemicals into our bodies that don't allow us to think clearly, to see the solutions, to see the problems, or to move towards those problems. So the first thing I would say is that we have to align with our true nature - that we are creating an image and likeness of peace, that nothing can disturb, and that our whole state of being is really to attain back to that understanding. And that's the point that I was making before when we talked about the Zen Du Du Ren is that I heal myself so I can help others. I can't - a sick person is going to make other people sick so I have to have to not infect my colleagues or my community with my brokenness. I have to fix my brokenness. Once I am fixed, or if I'm on the road to fixing my brokenness, now I can start sharing where I am healed with those who need healing in that area. So it's important to really lift others up as we lift ourselves up. So aligning with that understanding of that I'm not a human being. I'm not an animal. I'm not going to be led and guided by my emotions. I'm going to be led and guided by knowledge, by understanding. I don't - I'm not compelled to do anything. I don't have to do it because I feel it. I don't have to go out and attack because I feel that way. I'm going to plan accordingly. That's something that what's fortunate about that mind state is that no one can really understand or see how to stop that from happening. If I am moving, properly aligned, as a divine being, there's nothing that's going to stop it because it's a win win. I'm going to learn how to win for my people and my culture, I'm also going to learn how to win for those around round me. And so we start there, start by understanding that paece is our nature, that we don't have to be stressed in those situations. I hear it talked about a lot in that space, that hey, you know, this is stressful. Being a healer is stressful. Being in community is stressful. Being out in the streets, fighting these fights is stressful. I would offer that it's not. Stress is something that we can actually transcend, if we put our minds to that understanding. You know, we don't go around and and step on a tack and leave a tack in our foot and just get comfortable with that tack in our foot. So why do we comfortable with stress? We can remove the stress from our lives by identifying as a likeness of peace that nothing can disturb. Once we have that self-centered understanding, now no matter what I'm going through, I understand that these problems, these issues, these concerns, these worries, these challenges are mere opportunities for me to exalt my genius, for me to create new methods of success and avenues toward success for other people. And then I also will be willing to sacrifice everything that stands in the way of being at peace in my life. I can let go of the things that are really tying me down. And what's really tying us down is that oppressive mind state that, you know, we've been given and taught and educated by the society in which we live. And that's when we really can rise and that's how we become equitable. We find equity because we've risen above that mere human - or that animalistic understanding that we've been taught for so many generations here.

TraeAnna Holiday  33:23

Wow. I mean, that's everything really. I feel like so, so much of the times that we're in right now, I always think of this zeitgeist, right? It's very specific. And it's also very transformational right now where these kinds of ideas... I'm seeing them awaken in people more and more, right. And a few years ago, being at a conference and it was like the first time that I had any, you know, real recognition or understanding of how different it could be in my world if I started to see certain things differently. And then bringing that into this work in terms of, you know, with King County Equity Now and other groups that I work with in community in identifying those very principles that you just described, I think has been so transformational for me. But the beautiful thing that I'm really seeing is community response to this. You know, this is not out there a bunch, right, but I see people gravitating towards it. There's people that are trying to figure out how to heal themselves, how to utilize the tools of our ancestors to better their lives, right for themselves and their families and being examples of what it looks like to be able to take on, you know, something like the 11 laws of Ma'at. Just really this almost resurgence of so many people going back to the things that have always worked more so in ancient times. It takes me to some of the events that we've been able to throw in community, because when we see, you know, what it means... I know when I was working with Africatown Community Land Trust, one of the things we would say was like to ourselves as a staff internally, "what does it mean to have a thriving Black community? Right? What does it even mean to have real equity? Like, what does it look like?" Because at the end of the day, it hasn't been modeled for us necessarily. So we have to go all the way back. We have to think about when William Grose bought bought all that land from Henry Yesler, and then all these Black families started to migrate to the Central District. We go back to all the way that! That was like over 140 years ago! And there's so many examples that are way before that, that really showcase what it looks like. One of my favorite examples, is really the roaring towns, the Black roaring towns of the 20s. Right, as you think about folks that have just gotten their freedom, right, they're now no longer enslaved. And they were just like, you know what? We were going to make things happen! We're going to build these towns! We're going to have every facet that we need to have in these towns! And ultimately, we don't need to be shown what to do! This is the stuff that - we know how to do this. So there's so much that is like embed in our DNA and in our culture. When I think about Black people in particular, that goes back now to so much of those ancient lessons. And so just listening to you talk, that's what I was reminded of is that these ancient lessons are like, hey, it's almost like the ancestors are like, "Hey, y'all, we've been asleep for long enough! You know, it's time to wake up." And it's a beautiful thing to be a part of, you know, and to also witness out there and community. You've been bringing Qigong to multiple different areas, right? It isn't just for a particular community, but there are open sessions that you have. And it feels like it's really on mission with you being like, "Hey, people need this practice." What are some of the ways that you've been able - in spaces - where you've been able to really bring Qigong so that people are getting more and more informed about what it is and how to wield that balancing energy in their bodies?

Heru Tchaas Amen  37:11

One of the the recent practices that we were able to have was at a Martin Luther King Memorial Park where we had Qigong session for Juneteenth, the morning of Juneteenth before the celebrations really began. We were able to get people in space out there in a beautiful amphitheater typesetting, and practice Qigong with the community for free. And people came out. They dressed in white, and we really worked on gathering Qi - was the specific - but the focus really was around reclaiming the breath. And that meant, you know, I see people - we saw people walking around with, "I can't breathe" signs and masks on and things like that and you hear the debates even around the masks during the COVID situation around people not being able to breathe. The challenge there was that - I challenge people to own their breath. To rather than say, "I can't breathe" to say, "I will breathe, I'm going to breathe for these people that we've lost, I'm going to breathe for my family, I'm going to breathe for myself." And we understand to that where the breath goes, the emotions go, the body goes. And so when we can understand how to control our breath properly, we can think clearer. We can begin to reason properly. We can calm our emotions down. We can calm on that stress response down. Because the first thing that happens when we come in conflict with stress is that our our breathing becomes very shallow. We breathe from the chest. And so we were able to work for about an hour in community and just have people breathing into their belly while they gathered Qi. And Qi is really about energy and information. So we gathered the energy that we need to be successful. We gathered the proper information that we need to transcend our own behaviors and patterns. And so we do pop ups - we pop up on Saturdays at around the local parks and communities. And people are welcome to join the meetup and hook up there and at Liberty bank building recently, we're on top of the roof there, which is a beautiful, beautiful space to practice Qigong. We're just, you know - I'm just going to be up and down the I-5 corridor, wherever Black and brown people are and need healing, they can step into that space and really learn how to heal themselves, how to center themselves with their identification of the self, and really how to take that healing out to their family and friends. And it's really easy. One thing I love about Qigong it's not very complex. It's not hard to do. Anyone from, you know, that can understand how to stand in a position or sit in a position can do it. So so people that are young can do it. People that are older can do it. So I can take people that are five years old people are 85 - 90 years years old, are in this space to do this work and really be successful about it. It's really about spiritual exercise versus, you know, just for the physicality of it. And it's more of a mind activity than it is a physical activity. There are nine levels to the type of Qigong that I teach, and the ultimate levels when we get up to the nine and eight and ninth levels, we're not even moving. We're sitting in a comfortable position and exercising Qigong with the mind. And so the goal is to get our people to that point, you know. You talked about looking back to the 20s, and the roaring cities of our people that were here. You know, we can you mentioned how we can look further back than that. One of the problems with America, in my opinion, is that we really created America on the tenants of the Greeks and Romans, who, you know -  relatively new on the scene - and we're very violent in their nature and, and tumultuous in their communities and their civilizations. We can look further back than that, you know, 3500 years, 6000 years ago, when the Egyptians were at their zenith and things, and how they were able to be peaceful for 1000's of years, with one type of governmental system with one type of spiritual practice, right, without a lot of wars and destruction, right. And while cultivating and building the only world wonders that are still standing on the planet, right? How they align their spiritual understanding how they taught their people, how they cultivated the desert, and how they changed even the direction of the Nile River, and how they built these temples and these understandings and these principles and really sat down and took note of what the spirit looks like. And knew and understood the modalities and parts of your spiritual being in so much so that they could create on these 11 principles that you talked about the 11 laws of Ma'at that represent the faculties that each one of us has as a being on this planet. And so we look back to that and go there. And so as we're working with the breath, one of the main things that the Egyptians and that our ancestors did the Yoruba as well. It's about breathing. It's about meditation. It's about healing yourself. And so we open that up to everyone, anywhere, anytime, if you call me, I'm gonna do Qigong with you.

TraeAnna Holiday  41:57

You're about that life. That's what's up. And it's so necessary. And one of the things I feel like, I just would be remiss, because, you know, when we think about the access to this it hasn't always been here, right? I know that you're one instructor that is doing this in terms of a Black man instructor for really not just the Pacific Northwest... But were you saying the West Coast? I mean, explain that to us how how you got into this unique position, and you really are a representation that there's not a lot of Black men teaching this up here. And just explain that to the folks so they can understand what you're doing is very unique.

Heru Tchaas Amen  42:41

The spirituality I teach is part of the Renxue understanding. So it's, like I said, there's nine methods. I mean, Renxue is spelled R-E-N-X-U-E. I'm one of the only African Americans that teach that in the world - this style in the world. And so I'm one of the first ones out here. So I really have the support of the Renxue community as far as as far as sharing this teaching and this Qi understanding with the world. I'm not the only Black instructor because there are instructors in different styles of Qigong. There are multiple styles of Qigong just like there's multiple styles of karate or kung fu. So my spiritual mentor developed a practice called Ra Qigong. In fact, that's a very powerful method to practice and it's very easy, as well. And there are multiple disciplines inside of that, along with the community that I belong to, that teach different types of Qigong. But in the Renxue community, these nine methods of practice, I'm one of the only African Americans that teach this style and I'm the only African American in this space out here in the Pacific Northwest that teaches this style of Qigong. And so I really have the support the community worldwide in order to bring this to our people. It's one of the goals of Renxue - I found out when I was getting my instructor certification - to open up to Black and brown people around the world but no one knew how to do it. And I was looking for a place to learn Qigong when I started my spiritual work. So I found a Renxue studio that was out here in the Washington area and learned this method. And so I was practicing the method and I was like, "I gotta teach my family. I gotta teach my friends, so I got to get certified." So I start working on a certification. It takes several years to get the certification. But as I got my first certification, that's when I was approached and it was like like "Hey, you know, there are no Black people really doing this. We were wondering if you would be interested in sharing this with your community." I was like, "That's exactly why I learned this anyway." So they saw some of my essay work as well. And they've really been supportive and helping me bring this to the community for for pretty much nothing which is really nice.

TraeAnna Holiday  44:44

Wow. This is exactly why, Heru, you are a perfect guest for Equity Rising because we're all about showcasing equity changemakers. And really, I think what's so beautiful about all of your story, thus far that you've shared, is that it takes a specific inspiration, something has to click within you to say, "You know what, this is what I have to do. This is the space I have to be in." When I think about all the guests that we've had thus far, there's always something. You know, you go back to your childhood, and it's like, there's this example that you have that really is like fueled you and when you think of who you are today, maybe there's something from back in your childhood that goes, "Wow, you know, I was always around this kind of energy, I knew I would end up in this space. I didn't know what it would look like." But what does that for you in terms of one of those internal drivers that maybe goes back to your history and your past that makes you feel like, "You know what, wow, all of the things that I know and have learned over my life, you know, for me to be here is exactly right." What was that for you?

Heru Tchaas Amen  45:56

Well, I was a track athlete in high school. So I was good at running away from things. And my grandfather [Trae laughs] - my grandfather was a pastor of a small church. He came out here to Washington from Alabama, where he was he was a pastor of a pretty large community down there but he came out here to start some churches in the same organization. And we moved out here several years later, and I grew up watching him in space as, you know, a Pentecostal pastor. And someone came to me one day, you know, one of those old school, Pentecostal, you know, prayer meetings, and this old lady comes up, and she's like, "Hey, you're going to be a pastor one day," and that's when I started running away from anything that looked like spirituality. I tried to be the roughest, craziest kid, I could be in order to stay away from that. And so I had a lot of heartaches. I had a lot of failures and things. But what I found out through my life journey is that no matter how far I ran away from spirituality, I ended up right there. And so, over time, certain books and certain conversations with, you know, very wise people - elders from the community - presented themselves and I always found myself around the elders of the community, always found myself around, you know, Library's, spiritual books, and things like that. And, you know, one day I just got tired of running from what I knew I needed in order to really perfect who I was. And so I started to run to it and seek it out. And the same tenacious mindset that I had from running away from it, I used to run towards it. And so over the past several years, as I was studying certain books around African spirituality and, and Qigong, I found that doors begin to open up as I turned towards, you know, this work. I was able to meet with some mentors, and some gurus, and some sages around the world that I still can't believe that I have access to. And they've shared their wisdom and their input with me, and really nurtured that understanding without any restriction - I mean, just been very open with it. And, and so, you know, it came easy. You know, as I as I began to run to it, I stopped hurting. I stopped hitting my head and hurting my head or hurting my toe by stubbing up against the wall, like they say, and things and, you know, visions begin to come become reality, you know, become begin to manifest, you know. I saw myself teaching Qigong to my friends and family, and they showed up. You know, I didn't have didn't go out and advertise that stuff. I don't go out and beg for people to come and hang out. I just, you know, want to do the right thing at the right time for the right reasons, because that's what I'm here to do. And I'm beginning to embrace that and love it. And now, you know, it's part of what I find peace - more peace and more exciting than anything - is really to be able to provide healing and health and support to my family, my friends. And when I say family, I mean everyone, but to be able to give to people what was so freely given to me is a wonderful thing. It's a blessing in and of itself. So why stop? You know?

TraeAnna Holiday  48:53

Yeah, why stop, I mean, it's definitely necessary as is, you know, like all of the work. I just get to have these amazing conversations with folks like yourself and dive into all of the things that, you know, spark it in you that, you know, is now being felt by so many people out there in community. And, you know, kudos to you for the work that you're doing on both sides of the spectrum, not just in community, but also in that corporate space to make sure that they are, you know, truly being diverse and being inclusive and being equitable in their practices, in terms of all of the work that they're doing. It's been really intriguing for me to kind of hear this. And as we wrap up, I just want to make sure that at the end here, we give people a chance to get to know how to connect if they want to, you know, find you for Qigong and things like that. But one of my last questions really is for, you know, yourself right? You talked about how you take care of yourself. You talked about this strong understanding now of your spirituality. And as you think about the future, right, when you're thinking about what this work really means, in terms of so many diff- is like a amalgamation of things happening all at the same time, where we have a lot of people that are going through these awakenings. They are, you know, wanting more equity in their world, right in their - not just personal space - but for the world, right? I've spoken to so many different people. And yes, there are those that are comfortable with where it is right now. Right? All that's very true. There's some people that are like, hey, "America is great, what do you mean." But for those that are really like, "You know what? No, we can do better." And it's going to take all of us to do that work. And it's going to take so much more thought and more people like yourself to be out here in this world, doing the work that they are here to do so that we can actually begin to shift and pivot for the trajectory of where our country is going. I think so much for me is that I get truly inspired by the folks that put it in their life and then they're like, "You know what, this is just my mission. This is what I'm here to do." And however they get to that point, right, I think that it's a beautiful thing to witness people living in their purpose, right? And you truly seem like you are living in your purpose. What is something that you will, like tell people when they're on the cusp of this? When they're, you know, listening to this out there in their cars, in their homes, and they're saying, "Man, you know, this guy's got it together. Like, what do I need to do to get myself together? You know, I feel it too. There's something pulling me to be, you know, one of these equity changemakers myself, and I just, I'm not sure how to do it." What is something that you would love to say - to those folks that, you know, probably need to be in this space - in terms of making a more equitable world?

Heru Tchaas Amen  52:02

From the Qigong perspective, Qi and the Chinese really understood that - or understand that everything is in a constant flux. Everything is changing. Everything in the universe is constantly changing. And so when we deal with Qi, we're moving from something to nothing, or from nothing back to something. If they're feeling that call, or feeling that that that pluck in the back of their brain, understand that that's probably them remembering, and it's time to grow. It's time to grow and change. One of the benefits of being in the bodies that we are - being the beings that we are - is that we have the ability to choose. At any moment, we can choose to change our trajectory, to to change our family situation, to change our environment, to change our jobs, to change our careers, or to change our dynamic in any way. We have that free will. We have that ability. That is, in fact, what separates us from all other beings on the planet: is the ability to choose. And so I would stress that they should begin to choose to follow that truth that is growing in their minds in their hearts, with love and joy that grows out of understanding on what it is. So get to know that truth. And then begin to follow that truth as it grows out of love, and it grows out of joy. As you do that, you'll gain access to wisdom. You'll gain access to the power and the ability to change more. So really focus on, you know, learning the truth about your situation or about that small thing that's growing in your mind, and to step towards it. Don't run away from it. Because as we do run away from it, we realize that we're going to continue to fail and continue to hurt and things. And understand too that these events in life, these challenges, these spaces in life are very necessary. We need change in order to really develop the essence of who we are. We need these catalysts, these moments. We need this activation to happen in order to become what we are supposed and destined to be. We chose to be here at this time so that we could facilitate support and participate in this change, to change our environment, to change our country, to change our communities, to change our families, to heal our people, to heal one another. On that call - that's happening around the world - is like an alarm clock that is going out. Don't hit snooze on it. Go ahead and roll over and get the crust off your eyes. You know what I mean? And figure out how to get involved with some some growth, whatever that is. If it's, you know, holistic health - if it's just, you know, breathing - if it's, you know, just changing the way a process works in your environment, because you can see a better way, then step towards that. And don't be afraid.

TraeAnna Holiday  54:58

Wow, absolutely. Snaps all around. I love to say "Snaps all around." So appreciate you being in our space today for Equity Rising, I know your schedules probably very busy and just appreciate you taking time to share your lived experience with our audience and with us - with my team. I'm sure my podcast team is back there going, "Man, this is another great episode." These conversations get so deep and we just really appreciate you for taking the time. If people do want to catch up with you, how do they do that? I heard you drop a meetup group. What is it that they need to be looking out for if they're trying to learn a little bit more about Qigong and maybe make connection?

Heru Tchaas Amen  55:36

The easiest way would just be to drop an email to my email address: HeruTchaasAmen@gmail.com. And it's H-E-R-U-T-C-H-A-A-S-A-M-E-N@gmail.com. Or look me up on Instagram @HeruNefer: H-E-R-U-N-E-F-E-R on Instagram. Those are the easiest ways of getting in contact with my person. I also have a website which is HeruTchaasAmen.com for people to schedule time consultations - their free 15 minute consultations - where people can schedule some time to really understand what Qigong is about. We teach Qigong. I teach conflict resolution and support that as well - meditation, do Holistic Life Coaching, helping people to transition from dietary needs for a related health issues and concerns as well. So there's a lot there. Take a look at the website if you want. I'm always here, and I'm so glad to be on this show. I I've heard it and I've seen you in community. I see you move. It's an honor to be here - to be talking with you today. I'm just so hype about everything that you do. And supportive of what you do in community and so proud that you're out there doing this work. It's a great work that you're doing. You're changing the world. You're changing yourself and you're helping so many people. You're healing so many people. I'm proud to know you - proud to communicate with you. Thank you for having me here.

TraeAnna Holiday  57:00

Absolutely. Oh, thank you so much for that. That means the world. And you know, you guys clearly - I just gotta say this, as we close out. This is another great conversation we were able to have on Equity Rising. And it makes me so thrilled to know that these are the people that are in our community. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, first season we were all over the world, and we were talking to equity change makers everywhere. But this season, we're really focusing so locally and we're getting so much rich understanding of the people that are weaving the fabrics that we stand on on a daily basis. And someone like Heru Tchaas Amen out here doing this great work. You know, he just said it: he's accessible to y'all. If you guys want to learn more, if you guys want to dive in, have a inner conversation with yourself, and maybe get guidance. I mean, there's definitely someone like him out here that can help you with that. And also really providing Diversity, Equity and Inclusion - DEI - in the retail space as well. So the beautiful thing is, you guys, that if you're not inspired to figure out how to see yourself as a part of the solution, I can only tell you that... it's clear that when we talk about changing this world for the better and actually making America great because it's never truly been, we have the power to do that work. And when more of us are involved, the better we are as a nation, the better we are as communities, as cities, states and counties. We do this work together and so I'm thankful to be doing my part. And I just hope that you guys, after listening today, that you're inspired to find ways for you to do your part again, thank you to Heru Tchaas Amen appreciate your time. And thank you guys for listening to Equity Rising Season Two. We're focusing on our local equity changemakers and man! They are blowing my mind. Thank you all for listening.