Equity Rising S1 : Episode 2
Cannabis Equity with Raeven Duckett; Oakland, CA
In our very first episode of Equity Rising, Raeven Duckett takes us to school on what equity in the cannabis industry can and should look like. Raeven is Oakland, California’s first ever Equity License Holder, meaning that when the city legalized recreational cannabis in 2018, she was the first person to get one of a limited number of cannabis business licenses allocated for the Black community. This trailblazing industry perspective—coupled with a lifetime of family history in Black and civil rights movements—makes Raeven a beacon of insight, wisdom, and inspiration for the change that needs to happen within the cannabis industry in Seattle and Washington State.
Check out Raeven’s organization Supernova Women.
This week’s Chime In features Stefan Richmond - actor, dancer, and creative storyteller in Seattle, WA.
This episode was produced by Laura Cassidy, Julia Drachman, & Linnea Ingalls and edited by Josh Berl & Alex Place. Episode transcribed by Erika Hope.
Transcript
TraeAnna Holiday 00:00
You're listening to Equity Rising from King County Equity Now with the host me, Trae Holiday. On this podcast we connect with organizers, business owners, artists, and the incredible people fighting for racial equity around the country and the world so that we can connect with one another, build tactics and strategies, and learn from our lived experiences. On the first episode, I'm bringing on Raeven Duckett, the owner of the cannabis brand Community Gardens out there in Oakland. These folks are the first equity license holder in Oakland's cannabis industry. Just to note, this episode was recorded back in September. Welcome Raeven Duckett. Welcome, everybody to Equity Rising. I am so excited. I'm your host Trae Holiday and this is really exciting for me to bring on a powerhouse out there in Oakland, Miss Raeven Duckett. She's one of the Oakland equity experts in the cannabis industry. Raeven, thank you so much for joining me today.
Raeven Duckett 01:06
Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and talk to you about what I know about the Oakland equity program.
TraeAnna Holiday 01:14
Absolutely. There's so much for us to learn. So we're gonna get right into it. But first things first. This is our very first episode, really. And we want to start it off with our segment called "First Things First." And so everybody who comes on needs to tell us how you're taking care of yourself? What have you done in the last week to do some self care?
Raeven Duckett 01:36
Well, I'm playing fast. And last week, I've had a child. I had my first baby boy, my first baby. So I mean for self care and during this time of quarantine and lockdown and stuff, it's really taking a quiet moment to myself and unplugging from work and technology to, you know, spend time with myself and check in mentally. And so it's just really been being conscious being present in the moment, making sure that I'm not getting too overwhelmed with work or with my new motherhood or anything like that. And so it's just been being very present in the moment and making sure that I'm thankful and things like that.
TraeAnna Holiday 02:21
Absolutely. Well, congratulations to you! First born! That is so exciting.
Raeven Duckett 02:27
Yes, ma'am. Yes, it is. It's really exciting.
TraeAnna Holiday 02:30
And we thank you for taking the time out during your busy schedule, because motherhood is no joke when the baby first gets here. It's a lot of adjustments. So thank you so much for taking time out to give us a little bit of sliver of some history there in Oakland. And so I'm really moved by what you guys have done over there. So how did you really first find out about the equity program that was taking shape in Oakland around cannabis industry? And how did you know that you wanted to be a part of it?
Raeven Duckett 03:01
Yeah, definitely. So I'm born and raised in Oakland. And I have been wanting to be a part of the cannabis industry probably seriously since maybe like 2016. I wanted to be part of the cannabis industry. I had a friend who worked in a local dispensary in Oakland, and a couple other friends who lived in Denver. And I really, I mean, it looks fun. It looks like a lot of fun working in cannabis. Especially in California, especially in Oakland, before Prop 64 passed in California, we had a really strong medical cannabis community in Oakland, and in California at large. And it was booming. And it looked like something I really wanted to be a part of. And so once Proposition 64 passed, I was like, "Okay, this is my time to get in." And so before the Oakland equity program came to - came in my path, I was kind of looking at other cities. I was looking at Berkeley. I was looking at Emeryville. Those are like local cities right around me in Oakland. And then I think it was maybe like a press release or something on Facebook or something like that, where I understood that Oakland had just passed this new equity program. And so I started kind of reading about it, and in the qualifications and things like that. And so some of the qualifications that I read were that you needed to be from Oakland, and you needed to have like a certain income and all these kinds of things. And so I'm looking at the requirements, and I'm figuring out that my husband — my fiancee at the time — could qualify for the program. And so I was like, "Okay, we should look more and more into this." And so that's kind of like how I found out about it and following that was probably early 2017, I want to say? And so in May of 2017, the city of Oakland actually hosted a kind of information session at City Hall to kind of go over the basics of the Oakland equity program. And then that is where I really, like, learned about the program and figured out like, "Okay, I could actually qualify for this."
TraeAnna Holiday 05:16
Wow. Well, it sounds like there might have been, you know, really some swell and voice of community that helped to even bring about this kind of program. Because I know, a lot of the times the city doesn't inherently think, "Okay, let's do this in an equitable way." At least what I've experienced. So my question to you is, you know, how did you know that Oakland was getting to this place where they were going to do it? You said you saw the post but what what do you think happened beforehand to even make that post a reality? In terms of, you know, pressure that was coming from other places, so that Oakland would develop an equity program.
Raeven Duckett 05:54
Yeah, most definitely. So something that I didn't know at the time, but I came to learn very soon after I became a part of the industry was there were a lot of people including Oakland City Council members, a number of advocacy groups, and also a number of businesses within the city of Oakland, who were proponents for the Oakland equity program. And I think really at the base of, you know, the necessity for the equity program, all the parties involved: the people on the Oakland City Council, activist groups like Supernova Women and The Hood Incubator, and then businesses like my incubator, Kiva Confections, and a few others. I think they understood that the cannabis industry and legal cannabis industry is kind of a slap in the face for, you know, the war on drugs and everything that happened, which was really a war on people of color - a war on Black people, a war on brown people, like especially we talk about Oakland. And then we talk about the war on drugs, Oakland in specific was a very hot battlefield, I'll call it, for that war, where families were torn apart, people were sent to jail, people are still sitting in jail right now for marijuana-related crimes. And so I think it was a - it was a strong feeling that we cannot proceed and skip happily into this legal cannabis industry where everybody can come over the age of 21 and buy weed without acknowledging the discouraging and kind of generationally harmful effects that the war on drugs and cannabis - which was a tool in that war or a weapon in that war - had. And so all these groups and all these people came together to create some sort of solution, which was the Oakland Equity Program. And Oakland was the very first city in the state of California to put forth some sort of program like this. And it was really monumental, and it was really necessary. I think that it was really Oakland coming out and saying that, like we acknowledge that while cannabis is... cannabis has been, you know, betrayed in so many shameful ways and attached with a lot of lies and racism and all this kind of stuff. But what we're gonna do is do our part to kind of, you know, set things straight the way that we feel we're able to, which is basically make People of Color stakeholders within the new legal cannabis industry.
TraeAnna Holiday 08:37
Wow, it's such a bold move, honestly, for the city to really make. And it's obviously you just said it, you know, a lot of pressure from other groups that have been doing a lot of work on the ground. Sounds very similar to what we're experiencing here in Seattle. And so, regarding the policies around this program, the equity program, you actually are a equity operator, correct?
Raeven Duckett 09:04
Yes, ma'am.
TraeAnna Holiday 09:05
Okay, so let's hear a little bit more about what that means and how the program plays out. Understanding a lot about your dedication within the industry, how would you like to describe your experience in this program?
Raeven Duckett 09:21
I mean, it's been... So Community Gardens, which is the name of my cannabis company, we started back in 2017 once we figured out that the Oakland Equity Program was happening and that we were able to qualify. And so a little bit about the equity program: What it kind of entails is, if you qualify for equity you are basically given priority licensing within the city of Oakland. And so what that means is, should you be able to find space and things like that, if you apply for a license in Oakland and being an equity candidate, they will approve you. But there's more barriers to entering the cannabis industry, which are the same barriers as starting really any other business, which is like, you know, kind of finding space and capital and things like that. And so on the other side of the equity program, they also said that anyone who wants a license to operate in the city of Oakland - license operated cannabis business in the city of Oakland - they also need to... If they don't qualify for equity and they're considered a general applicant, then they need to incubate an equity candidate. And so basically, what an incubator provides to an equity candidate is space - rent free space for three years and security - which is a really big thing. You know, trying to find a space to operate is one of the first barriers and one of the first steps to really get into the industry. And so we were able to find an incubator at that mixer that I mentioned a little earlier, Kiva Confections. And so we went in with them. And we met them at that first mixer back in, I believe, was like May 2017. And so with the help of Kiva, I think we found a really great incubator, wherein... While the Oakland equity program called out specifically that your incubator really just needs to provide you with space and security, what our incubator has been able to provide for us is a lot of industry knowledge and connections. And so it was really kind of tough starting out, because the founders of Community Gardens: it's a family business. So it's myself, my husband, and my cousin. So it's three of us. And while I come from a tech background, right before working or right before starting community gardens, I was working at Pandora. Before that I was at Adobe. Before that I did some work for Mazda. So I came from like a tech background. My husband, he comes from B-to-B sales. My cousin is a Navy veteran. So we have really like powerful backgrounds. But none of us had worked in weed before. And so, you know, we're getting into weed, we're like, "Okay, how much - how many grams is an ounce?" You know, like, that's kind of where we were.
TraeAnna Holiday 12:11
[laughs] Right?
Raeven Duckett 12:12
So we didn't know where to get our product. We weren't really sure how to set up our business formation. We weren't really sure like how to do any of those kind of really basic things you need to do to even submit an application like: set up your business structure; you need to get insurance; you need to like... once you get approved, you need to have suppliers to actually buy product from. And so we were lucky enough that our incubator was really involved in our success. And they really understood that if, you know, Community Gardens comes out as a successful business, then Kiva on the other end will be able to get their license, maintain their license, and won't have any problem with those kinds of things. And so, it was really great to have that added mentorship, because I think on the other end, there were some cases within Oakland where people were making partnerships with partners and general applicants who weren't as involved in their success. And I can say that, you know, had we not gotten introductions with growers and cultivators and things like that, it would have been hard to find people who were offering us fair prices. And so that was interesting. And then once we kind of like really started the business, I feel like we kind of understood the different nuances of running a cannabis business, just in terms of like, even just marketing and advertising and customer acquisition. I think that when we started the business back in 2018, 2017... So Community Gardens was issued the third delivery license in the state of California. We were the first Equity Team license in the state. And so we were, you know, in it to win it like from the beginning, right?
TraeAnna Holiday 13:51
Wow!
Raeven Duckett 13:51
But like I mentioned, Oakland and, you know, California at large had a really strong medical cannabis community, which I think a lot of people assumed would just kind of naturally transition to the adult market. But what we found out - kind of the hard way and the whole industry did really - is that that wasn't the case. And so it was really a struggle, because we were kind of taking advice and using old practices that would work back in the medical days. Say maybe just like, you know, putting up an ad on like a Weed Maps or a Leafly or something like that. Or just like offering or even just offering like free products - like it was a really big thing in the medical community, like first time people get a free pre roll, like first time customers get a free pre roll. But in the new legal market, you can't legally give away free product. So it's just like, even basic, like marketing customer acquisition kind of practices weren't allowed in the new market. And so really what happened in California, industry-wide was that we saw a really big drop in consumer participation in the legal industry. And so put put that together with the fact that we are a really small business. We're still a team of three. We're a team of three back then and we're a team of three now, with a really limited budget. We were all self funded up until, you know, last year. And so it's like, we're working on a small budget, we're working against people who have been in the industry for so many years. So it was tough to really find our space and find our customers and compete for that dollar. And so we're still trying to figure it out but we're still, you know, in it to win it, I'll say, and like, fill in the industry and things like that. But it's been really tough, trying to figure out the new customer. Data shows that you know, even still, even though California is one of the largest legal markets in the nation, the largest in the nation, 75% of cannabis consumers in California are still actively participating in the non licensed market and the illicit market. And so our kind of goal with Community Gardens is really focusing on that market right now, which we see to be a lot of Black and brown people, especially, who are being ignored, really in the legal industry right now. And so it's been, it's been interesting. We've been trying to find our lane; I believe we found it. And now we're trying to find our people, which is challenging because we can't use traditional social media marketing tactics. We can't, you know, run ads on Facebook and Instagram, like if we were selling coffee we could or something like that. So just trying to figure it out. But overall, we've definitely been enjoying it.
TraeAnna Holiday 16:32
Well, you know, thank you so much for sharing that history and that background. I think it really gets the listeners in to the mode of what's going on down there in Oakland. Because this partnership with you know, equity operators or equity, you know, folks that have the equity licenses, and then folks that have a regular, you know, a regular license, a retail license, right? It's important that they share these, you know, share best practices to ensure that the newer businesses are going to be sustainable. But I know that that's not always the case for all of them. And you happen to have a really great one with, you were just saying, with Kiva, right? Kiva Confections? So, you know, you have a really great one. But I want to hear a little bit about how these partnerships can work. And well, you've explained how they work well. But how they can also work kind of not so well, depending on the sincerity, I guess, of the of the partner that you have?
Raeven Duckett 17:35
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that it kind of... I think there is a... there was a... how do I say - there was a lack of accountability for best success of equity businesses, as the equity program was initially set forth, I'll say. And I think that's because the medical cannabis industry was a lot easier. Easier is a is a kind of a strong term, I'm not saying it was easy, but it was easier than the adult market. It was easier to operate in. It was easier to make money. It was easier to get customers in the medical market. And so I think that kind of the equity program was created within sort of a medical mindset. And so, you know, I feel like what the medical market it was, like, if you could get in on the medical market, and you have a quality product and, you know, you get into a few dispensaries and you probably have a really good functioning business. And so you go into the legal market, and you kind of have these equity businesses who, by definition, are people who probably come from lower income areas and everything that means with that. You know, maybe you don't have as great education. You might not have a college degree. You don't have as much money as, you know, other people. And then you also don't know this industry! You probably haven't been in this industry before. And then you attach it with a business and incubator, a general applicant, who's basically really trying to run their business as well, you know, and so it's... they're in a new market and so like it's not necessarily their priority to counsel and, you know, mentor another business, whether it's because they they plain out don't want to, or maybe they just don't have the time or bandwidth to do so. And so it's kind of just like you're getting into an industry and you're getting into a partnership where people are or businesses and general applicants are just doing the bare minimum because that's all that they feel they want or need to do. And then, on the other end, you just have a group of people - a group of applicants - who are just not ready to enter into the... not ready to succeed in the industry that they signed up for because they don't have the necessary tools to do so.
TraeAnna Holiday 20:03
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I can see that wholeheartedly. And I think that this is why it's so important when programs like this are created that understanding there needs to be some real deliverables, right, in regard to that. Like putting in those guidelines around how they're going to support that business to ensure that it's sustainable and successful. And here are some of the ways that, you know, success has looked in these other partnerships and kind of gleaning maybe if Kiva Confections is, you know, one of the better equity partners really gleaning from them, how they, you know, ensured that your business would do well. So I think that's really important to uplift that, and I know that we have a lot more to get into, because we need to talk about the policy behind all of this. And there's so much more to consider in terms of learning how your business stays connected to community. But first, we're going to take a quick break. And this is going to be one of our breakout segments here on Equity Rising and one of the ways that we're going to be bringing our community's point of view into these conversations, and also uplifting and sharing some of the great work and businesses that happen in our community. So stay tuned, guys, we'll be right back. And now it's time for the Chime In. In this segment, we bring in voices from our community to see what they have to say.
Stefan Richmond 21:28
My name is Stefan Richmond, and I currently live in the occupied Duwamish territory, also known as Seattle, Washington. I grew up in a pretty religious household. My dad was actually a narcotics police officer, as well as a D.A.R.E. police officer. So needless to say, my views on cannabis use and cannabis culture in general was very shaped by the ideologies of the war on drugs, intersecting with religion. And then it actually wasn't until I left home and went to college, that I then sort of was exposed more so to recreational cannabis use. I think I recognize that my experience and journey with marijuana comes from a very privileged stance, especially as a biracial Black male-identifying person. I know that I come from a lineage of Black males who are spending their entire lives in a prison system for something that I get to actively participate in whenever I choose and have no repercussions. And so now, as as a recreational user, I just feel that I have a duty to be one - like a more educated consumer, and speaking out and sort of being a role model within cannabis culture and kind of sort of breaking stereotypes and having conversations around the inequities and injustices that are happening within the cannabis culture. Hopefully, this wasn't too much of a ramble. I appreciate you all asking these questions because it was nice to talk about cannabis for a little bit. So thank you.
TraeAnna Holiday 23:48
Thanks to Stefan for joining us for the Chime In. Now, back to the interview with Raeven. Well, thank you guys for listening to Equity Rising with me, your host Trae Holiday. And today I'm so excited to have Ravaen Duckett of Oakland Equity, the cannabis equity program, here with us on Equity Rising today. Again, Ravaen, this has been a great discussion we've been having before the break. So thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective and story with us.
Raeven Duckett 24:22
Of course, of course.
TraeAnna Holiday 24:23
Absolutely. So, you know, you were explaining a lot about the partnership before the break. And we know even to get to that place, right, we talked a little bit about the pressure coming from outside entities. But there's a lot of policy that has to happen with all of this. And so I want to get into the kinda policy discussion here. For you, you take your position very seriously and I want to hear a little bit more about how you have been a part of shaping policy. Because it's had to move forward. Right? I mean, they came up with this idea. But you guys are really the ones playing it out.
Raeven Duckett 25:06
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that the Oakland Equity Program has been evolving since I've been a part of it. Kind of before the break, we were talking about kind of how, you know, my my incubator kind of relationship has been going pretty well. It's been going really well and they've been really helping us and really a pivotal source for our business success, while others may have partners that are not so much like that. I'll say the city of Oakland really acknowledged that. And so, a little bit after, you know, legal cannabis started in 2018, Oakland brought on a technical assistance partner in the city of Oakland. It's called Make Greenville. And so kind of what they were brought on to do was to help applicants with everything I said that our incubator helped us with. And so that was kind of like the first step of the city kind of taking accountability for the applicant: making sure that we knew how to set up our business structure, making sure we knew kind of where to get product and kind of different compliance softwares, and things that we needed to do. And so that was kind of like the first step in that direction. The second thing that kind of happened was it was a lack of capital that a lot of the equity candidates were coming in with. Like I said, Community Gardens, we were self-funded, literally, like from my savings, and like, kind of like my 401k I had for my job and stuff like that. But that wasn't the case and that wasn't the ability for a lot of the other teams coming through. And so what Oakland did was put forth a loan program. And so currently Oakland has an equity loan program where equity applicants are able to get 0% interest loan, that that goes up to, I believe, $100,000, that they can pay back over, I believe, it's four to five years. And so that was kind of like a second kind of coming of like, "Okay, first we've taught you how to run your business. We taught you how to start your business and how to set up your business. And now we have something where you can actually get money to do the things that you need to do." And so those policies have happened. Another thing that's happened in Oakland is there has been some tax reform. And so a little bit about what I was talking about earlier about how we don't see as much participation in the legal cannabis market as we were seeing in the medical cannabis market. A really, really, really big part of that is all the taxes that are associated with the legal cannabis market, everyone from city to state to federal, you know, wants a part of that every dollar that a cannabis business brings in. And so at the top of 2020, at the top of this year, Oakland actually lowered the taxes and restructured the taxes, and made some incentive programs for companies who operate in Oakland to hire locally, and pay fair wages and that would let them get certain tax breaks. And so that was something that was really pivotal. In terms of me personally, I mean, I've always been pretty outspoken and things like that. But coming into the cannabis industry and being an equity applicant, and kind of seeing the conversations that were happening around me about equity applicants and about equity operators and about equity in general, I saw that there was a voice missing. And that was actually people like me, people who were actually working and actually doing the work and out on the field. And so I started to become a lot more active. I started going to city council meetings to talk about, you know, what I was going through, especially when it came to the taxes. That was something that was really personal to me, because I knew that was something that was keeping a lot of customers away from our delivery service. And so, at the top of 2019 I actually joined an advocacy group called Supernova Women. And I came on the board and I was added to the board specifically because I was an equity operator and to kind of speak for those operators. Because I think what kind of happened... while also they did put forth the program Make Green Go where it was like - it was really necessary at the time to get everyone in line to set up and start their business a year after the program started. It's like okay, we have we have operators. People are set up. Like I've already done my paperwork. I've already done my filings. I've already got my insurance. I've already done all this kind of stuff. Now I need more help. I need to level up. I have a product; I need to understand how to get it on the shelf. I need to understand cash handling procedures because you know banking in - that whole thing is a whole nother beast in the cannabis industry. And so that's what I've been really focused on. For the past year and a half has been working with Supernova, who overall, we do a lot of policy work nationally to put forth equity programs. We really make space for people of color in the cannabis industry. But me specifically, really making sure that we have programming and resources for equity operators so that they can run their business efficiently and keep growing and succeeding. Because I think, especially in Oakland where I am, we have several operators here who are running businesses that are great: that are making great quality products. There are a number of Black- and brown-owned delivery services, distribution companies, flower companies that really have a great kind of thing going. And it's my goal to make sure that those businesses are able to sustain operation and keep up with the industry. And so with Supernova, we've been able to, like put together programming to, like, help businesses understand the industry and make sure that they're, you know, possibly one step ahead and understanding what's coming.
TraeAnna Holiday 31:18
Well, you know, that's amazing. And honestly, it's, it's funny, because I'm listening to you, and I'm like, "Yes, she's doing all the things like!" That's really what it takes, right? I mean, because you recognize and realize that, "Hey, this is a new industry, I'm going to need to speak up. I'm going to need to make sure they understand the challenges that we have in this industry, even with this program, and, and really give them the opportunity to ensure that the goals of equity are actually happening. So so there isn't any more of those kinds of disparities creating gaps." So I thank you for that. For for sharing that. Because it's clear that a lot of us who are involved in equity work, we have to wear the hats of many in terms of not just in our you know, like for you in your business, but then working with Supernova, going to city council meetings, like ensuring that policy is also being as progressive as certain programs. Right? So thank you for that, because I think that your work really is foundational in terms of what it means to bring about equitable programs, equitable solutions, into a system that inherently didn't have that built in. Right? And so, I want to ask you, because so much of this always involves, you know, going back to community, right? You were talking about the fact that your husband lived in one of these areas that really was, you know, heavily policed, and has that history of, you know, incarcerating people for marijuana charges. What is it that you're doing right now in community to, you know, kind of educate folks and get community informed and make sure that they're engaged and aware in all that you're doing in the equity program?
Raeven Duckett 33:05
Yeah, so it's mostly through Supernova Women. We do a number of free or like donation based events. We just had a "Grow and Scale" series where we did a number of webinars that let people know how to get shelf space and handle cash and all those kinds of things like that. Before Supernova, I also participated in a program called the make our - excuse me, it was called... Sorry, my pregnancy brain or my postmom brain is getting to me. But I participated in a program where we held a workshop that taught people how to basically fill out the Oakland Equity application. It was a five series workshop that we held, actually, at the Kiva Confections offices back in 2018. It's called the Green Huddle. There we go. So it's called the Green Huddle. And the Green Huddle was basically gathering everyone who already figured out that they qualified for the Oakland Equity Program, but they were like, "Okay, what now?" You know, and so we would hold five series workshops that basically helped them fill out the application, which was like a big thing, you know. And so that was something that we did to kind of help the community to be a part of the industry. And so I think that on a larger scale, what I would like to see in some of my goals, and when I talked to other cities and states and things like that about what the community can do, or what cannabis can do for the community at large, I think that community reinvestment is something that is missing from a lot of the equity kind of legislation and kind of ordinances that are being put forth right now. Because I think that when the equity program came out - and it made 100% sense at the time - it was "Okay, let's get People of Color in the cannabis industry. Let's make sure that, you know, they're not left out, and that they have their ability to be a part of it." Which I think is 100% necessary and makes total sense but I think that people who were affected by the war on drugs and people who lived in the areas that were over policed, and people who, you know, were arrested for crimes that they shouldn't have been related to marijuana might not want to be a part of the cannabis industry. And I think that is totally understandable. And I think that the fact that the only way to benefit from the legal cannabis industry right now is to be a part of it - it's kind of missing a step. And so I think that there's room for community reinvestment funded and fueled by the legal cannabis industry, whatever that looks like: whether it be housing, whether it be education, whether it be job placement, or things like that. Because I think that, really, when, you know, someone's arrested, it not only affects that one person, but it affects the whole family, you know. And so it's just like generations of people, especially in places like Oakland and LA and San Francisco, and all this kind of stuff. Generations of people - families were really displaced. And at this point, you know, if they're looking at this cannabis industry and saying, "Okay, I don't really want to be a part of it." But, you know, let's say my dad was arrested, you know, for having an ounce back in like, 92. And I had to, like, you know, stop going after school program, because I had to watch my little brothers or something like that, you know. Like, I think that they deserve some sort of opportunity based on, you know, all of this new money and excitement that is around the cannabis industry. And so, I do hope and I do advocate that as the industry continues to grow, we figure out ways that we can invest in the community and invest in people who are not necessarily a part of the industry.
TraeAnna Holiday 37:07
Yeah, you know, I think that you're so right, in that regard. And when we talk about equity in general, I think what you just described is really at the heart of that. So much of it is about, "Alright, how do we ensure that these folks who have been blocked out or left out or never knew these opportunities existed? How do we ensure that there's no barriers for them to participate, that they can fully participate?" And one of the things that I think we're really seeing here in Washington that's related around cannabis and equity is that we're seeing a lot of the licenses go to, you know, folks that are, you know, white, right? I mean, just to be very frank, that those licenses are - that's the game they're kind of playing in the cannabis industry up here, is by regulating the amount of licenses that folks can have, you know, the areas where they can be, all of this kind of stuff. And I feel like the licenses are such a part of the regulation here. Is that something that you experienced down there in Oakland, as well, that a lot of this is really kind of governed by the those who grant the licenses?
Raeven Duckett 38:23
So do you mean that kind of like... are you speaking to a lack of diversity in licensed businesses, like locally? Is that kind of...?
TraeAnna Holiday 38:35
Yeah, I mean, up here, that's one of the biggest things is that what we heard from community and from some even Black farmers that have collectivized themselves to say, "Look, you know, the biggest deal that we struggle with up here, and our biggest hurdle is for us to just get these licenses," right?
Raeven Duckett 38:55
Mmmm, okay.
TraeAnna Holiday 38:55
They'd rather have or do, you know, medical, but to get into retail, it's difficult for them. And it's based on a lot of kind of bureaucracy and only these amount of licenses, or these people bought up the licenses and so now they have them. We're just hearing a lot around licensing.
Raeven Duckett 39:14
Got it! So I would say in Oakland, I'd say no. Right? So in Oakland - and that's why like I think Oakland specifically is such a powerful place and why I talk a lot about it and why my focus is making sure that operators are able to sustain and grow their businesses -because in Oakland, no. That's not happening in Oakland. I know a bunch of businesses owned by People of Color, by women, by Black women, Black men, Brown men, you know, Brown women. It's funny because I I've been in Oakland and obviously operating for the last few years. I spent like six months in Portland last year, in 2019. I did an accelerator up there. And I kind of noticed the lack of diversity in like the Portland industry, right? So I'll say that like, I'm actually kind of like spoiled or whatever, for lack of a lack of a better term, of like we have in Oakland specifically, like we have a very diverse group of cannabis operators. I'll say where the kind of - where the lack of diversity kind of hits is operating, operating types, right. So usually, the Black-owned businesses are the businesses that have the kind of lower cost to entry. So you'd look at like delivery services and distribution companies, maybe sometimes cultivation facilities. But really like delivery services, the distribution services, those are kinds of lower costs to enter in terms of the whole gamut of what you can start. I will say, in Oakland, we don't really have a lot of Black-owned manufacturing companies, because those are really expensive to start. You need equipment and all this kind of thing that, you know, are really expensive and hard to acquire if you are really coming from a lower income background. And so that's kind of where the divide is in Oakland. I will say that in Oakland, they are taking steps to correct that. Most recently, in the last like, I think it was like two weeks, Oakland announced that there's going to be a Shared Equity Kitchen. And so they just opened up a shared manufacturing space where equity applicants can come in and actually create their own like edible line and infused pre roll lines and things like that. And so even that part of the industry, where there is a divide, is getting corrected. But I will say that, at large, I have heard that in other cities that is totally the case where it's like, you know, money talks. And you know, who usually have money, like, usually white men, you know.
TraeAnna Holiday 41:51
[laughs] Yeah, yeah.
Raeven Duckett 41:52
It's how the country is set up. So there is a lot of kind of "Trojan horse"-ness happening in some of the equity programs. Where it's like, you know, the equity applicant is just kind of a prop into, you know, someone - some large heavily funded individual or company - getting into the industry. But I think that if cities come really correctly, and specifically with their equity programs, that is something that can be averted. Because in Oakland, like I said, the diversity is really great. And really, after I spent that time in Portland at the top of 2019, I came to really appreciate for sure.
TraeAnna Holiday 42:37
Wow, well it sounds like the rest of the nation has a lot to learn from Oakland and Oakland's Equity Cannabis Program. That is for sure. And honestly, you know, just listening to you talk I'm like, "Man, this is for me, one of the goals of this podcast!" It's really about, you know, sharing what works other places. Because I think so much of... When we talk about reimagining, right, what our cities look like and reimagining, you know, levels of authority and where positions of power come from and all of this, I think that we're in such a transformative space right now, as a country where, you know, we can hear from someone like yourself, talking about the Cannabis Equity Program in Oakland, and we can realize, "Wait a minute, there's some experts in Oakland that have literally hammered this out, and that are also being responsive enough to change things on the fly, when it doesn't work. And when there's something that seems like oop, there's a kink in that system there. It's still not being fully equitable, there's a way to iron that, that wrinkle out." And it just sounds like Oakland is really being, not only responsive, not only innovative and progressive in creating the program, but also responsive in ensuring that the program stays equitable. And I think that that's one of the lessons we can all learn from in this moment of time. Right now, Ravaen, you know, I mean, we're in a space where the country is really pressing for change. And before we end here today, I want to ask, you know, this zeitgeist we're in, this sign of the times we're in right now... How is that affecting you down there in Oakland? And how do you think the movement in general is really bringing about equity and this kind of awakening across the country?
Raeven Duckett 44:28
Yeah, I mean, that's like [sigh] that's heavy. Like, and I know you know it's heavy. Like, that's heavy because I mean, like, sometimes, like, I have to, like, stop and take a step back and really think about, you know, what I do for a living and what I'm able to accomplish. You know, I sell weed for a living in real life. And that's something that, you know, people were legit getting like arrested for and going to jail for and ruining their whole lives for not that long ago. You know, and it's just like, I'm from Oakland. I'm third generation Oakland. You know, my mom used to go to Black Panther meetings and things like that. And so it's like, I come from a place of revolutionaries, of activists, of people who demand change and make change happen. And so I think that in terms of what's happening in the nation, like, honestly, it's been happening in Oakland, you know what I'm saying? And I've been known, you know, all of the inequalities that people like myself face, people like my husband face, you know. And it's kind of just like, I'm happy that as a nation and a more diverse group of people are starting to understand the really basic inequalities that Black women face, that Black men face, just going out and living every day. And so I think that's another part of why I feel my activism is not only something I'm just interested in and I enjoy doing, because I do enjoy doing it, but I feel like, it's kind of like, a necessity for me. Because it's like, I'm blessed to be able to sell weed for a living and, you know, say and be able to legally do that and this be my job. And a lot of people had to fight for me to get here. And it's a lot of people even right now in other states that can't do anything like what I'm doing, and that's not right. And so I think that, you know, our nation and the current uprising that we're in - in this, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement and things like that - are wonderful. And I want to do everything I can to keep that momentum going. Because like I said, I've been seeing all the issues that are being pointed out now. And I'm glad that everyone else is seeing them and I just want to do whatever I can to uplift people around me to be a part of this cannabis industry. But like I said, I think community reinvestment in using this cannabis industry to help others that don't necessarily want to be a part of it is really, really important. Because I think that it's just been a whole system, a whole kind of like, chain reaction of just inequalities that have put a lot of people in unfair places, in bad places, including jail, including homelessness. In Oakland, we have a huge homelessness problems, which is ridiculous. And so on the other end of like us being kind of like the second tech hub to San Francisco, which is like... A little bit about that, like, I worked in tech before this. And so it's like when I when I looked at the cannabis industry, besides being like, "Oh, shit was gonna be so fun. I'm gonna sell weed for a living. Like, I'm gonna be like fucking cool." Like, it was like, you know, like, I saw that. I worked in the tech industry. I worked at Pandora, which is based in Oakland. And I was really benefiting from the changes that have happened to my city. And I was looking at cannabis. And I'm like, "Okay, this is the next thing that's going to happen to my city." I'm working in the tech industry - the reason why, you know, things are too expensive. People can't afford to live in Oakland and the reason why people are homeless in Oakland and things like that. So it's like, "Okay, I'm going to enter in." And it was kind of too late in the tech industry, when I got into it, you know. Ship has sailed, you know, like, it's already happened. But it's like, I'm looking at cannabis like, "Okay, look, like I'm here. I got the third license in the state of California. I'm one of the first people in the door. But you know, I think, is it Kamala Harris, like you could be the first but don't be the last." Right? Like, that's how I feel, you know. So it's like, I can be the first. I can be in these rooms of all these white people, white men especially, you know, that, you know, might ignore me or whatever. And I can take what I can take, because it's like, my... I come from a line of activists, a line of people who were in rooms that people didn't want them to be in and said things that people didn't want them to say or didn't want to hear. And it's like, I take pride in that. You know, and I think that's my part of like, this whole kind of movement that's happening now. It's like, okay, I'm going to be in those rooms, that a lot of people like me that come before me would have never been invited in. I'm going to be a part of that conversation. I'm going to do that. And so, I don't know, I think it's just like, I feel that I've had such an awesome opportunity to be a part of something at its onset, that is going to have lasting effects, you know, for generations and years to come.
TraeAnna Holiday 49:37
Oh my gosh, inspiration over here! Absolutely! And I agree with you wholeheartedly that everything that we do, I think it may be it's just a lot of us who are you know, come from this kind of place of they wanted to call you a minority, whatever else. It's like, if you're non-white, there's certain things that you just understand because if you were born in this country, there's certain things you really understand in that regard. And it sounds like you get it all the way. And I love that you're utilizing your platform to bring about education into the community to uplift and bring out pathways for, you know, newer Equity Cannabis Operators like that's what it's all about. Because you're absolutely right. If we're the first ones in the door, we definitely got to keep that door cracked for those coming after us and so I appreciate that perspective wholeheartedly. I know you have the little baby so that you have to go. But I wanted to let the audience know and before we get here, that you're not only doing stuff behind the scenes for your business, I hear that you're also the delivery driver once a week.
Raeven Duckett 50:48
Mmm-hmmm!
TraeAnna Holiday 50:48
So people had the opportunity to call you up and maybe it would be you also delivering their cannabis. I don't know how you do it all, Raeven, but we definitely thank you. We thank you so much for taking time to shed some light on the Cannabis Equity Program down there in Oakland. We definitely have a lot to learn up here in Seattle. And we'll definitely stay connected. Because I think as things progress here, we need to take some lessons from you guys, and really share what works. You know what I mean? And also share what doesn't so that we don't replicate it.
Raeven Duckett 51:21
Definitely. Yeah, I mean, I'm here. I definitely well, to start: Yeah, I still do drive because like I said, we're still like a team of three so we're still pretty small. So yeah, I'm still like, literally on the front lines, literally on the road. But I think that this podcast and these conversations that you're having, and even this show is just so necessary, because we like - it all starts with a conversation, right? It all starts with someone being like someone needs to talk about this... someone needs to tell a story. Someone needs to personalize this. Like I said, like I saw a lot of conversations happening about equity and around equity without talking to equity operators. And so like, that's why I'm here to just share what I'm doing, share my experience. And I think that's what you're what you guys have as a goal in Seattle and what you're putting together in Seattle is so important. And it's like, of course, your program is going to look a little different from Oakland. Because it needs to be Because you guys are different from Oakland. But it's like you're taking the right steps of like, at least connecting with others in the area - other than like the industry and things like that - to do that. And I think that, you know, whatever help I can provide, whatever insight I can provide, whatever introductions I can make... There are a few equity programs within the state of California. I think it would be really interesting, if you want to talk to maybe someone in like Los Angeles or something because we have a whole nother little thing going on right now. But yeah, anything I can do to just kind of either give you my point of view or kind of point you in the right direction, I'm here. Because I think that this is this is where it starts. This is it. We have to do it for ourselves. And we have to kind of make it happen. And so I'm happy to be a resource.
TraeAnna Holiday 52:12
Right. Well, I appreciate that so much. And I think you're absolutely right that that's why we said "We need to do this podcast. We need to start listening and learning and talking with folks across this country and beyond - globally - that are doing equity work on the ground." And it doesn't matter what the industry is, at the end of the day, we need to be learning and building this body of work around equity because our nation has not been equitable. And now the voice of the people is saying "Look, we really have to make some huge shifts, and huge changes here." And so that's what this is really all about. So thank you again, Raeven. You have been an amazing first guest. I'm so honored that you were able to join us today on Equity Rising and share your story with us so that we can continue forward on this equity journey. Thank you so much again, friend. We will definitely be in contact.
Raeven Duckett 53:55
Thank you.
TraeAnna Holiday 53:59
Thank you for listening to Equity Rising. Our next episode will be out next week, Thursday. Subscribe to get new episodes as soon as they come out. And if you don't follow us on social media yet, you can find us on Facebook at King County Equity Now Coalition; Instagram @KingCountyEquityNow; and Twitter @KCEquityNow. Contact us if you want to get involved, submit a Chime-In, or continue the conversation.