Equity Rising S1 : Episode 5
Art + Activism = Artivism with Idris Goodwin; Colorado Springs, CO
New word: Artivist. Self-described “hyphenate” Idris Goodwin considers himself one—he’s also a writer, breakbeat poet, playwright, teaching artist, college professor, creative community builder, and the director of Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center at Colorado College. In Episode 5, Idris and Trae talk about taking the personal into the political through theater and performance, and they get into using the arts as a means of activism. For Idris, one way this came to life recently was through a series of multigenerational open-source plays that he gave freely to the collective so that anyone could produce or stage them however they’d like. Born in Detroit and a true lover of travel, Idris is an inspiring example of localizing, mobilizing, and connecting no matter where you are—through storytelling, expression, conversations, and shared experience.
This week’s Chime In features Alex Lee Reed.
This episode was produced by Linnea Ingalls & Julia Drachman and edited by Josh Berl.
Transcript
Trae Holiday 01:55
And um I free to thank you so much Idris for being on with us on equity rising I am so excited to have you on today. You guys are listening to equity rising with me Trey Holiday. And today Idris Goodwin is with us. I just got to do this because this is really where I like to start. First things first. How are you taking care of yourself my friend?
Idris Goodwin 02:22
poorly. No, you know, I'm lucky enough to be in lockdown with my beautiful children who give me a lot of joy and they pull me out of you know, the remote work headspace. So hanging out with my kids is really saving me. And honestly, I live in a beautiful state. I live in the state of Colorado, which is the the unceded territory of the Ute and the Cheyenne and, and there's a lot of deer running around my neighborhood trying to get they swole on for the long winter. And uh and you know, in the mornings when I go out for my walks, I'll see like a whole squad of them and and they'll just start walking with me, you know. So that that's that's really who have been given me a lot of catharsis.
Trae Holiday 03:15
Yeah, there we go. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate your transparency, because not too many people say, you know what I how about that - I aint taking care. So I appreciate that. Now we can get into all the fun formalities. But let's let the audience know a little bit about who you are. And what you do.
Idris Goodwin 03:33
yeah, sure. So I'm, I'm a hyphenate. I am a writer. So you know, breakbeat poet and a playwright. But I'm also an educator, I've been a teacher teaching artists a college professor the whole nine for for roughly going on 20 years, more or less now. And, um currently, I serve as the director of the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center at Colorado College, which is a multidisciplinary Arts Center on a college campus here and here in the Springs. And so I'm also what I like to call a creative community builder. And there's this term "art-tivism" that that I'm just now getting caught up to. And I definitely like to say I'm an art-tivist, as well, meaning that I definitely am very interested in social change and social justice. And I much like the hip hop tradition I'm rooted in I believe that, you know, the artists have a responsibility to their communities to represent for them to tell their stories and also to help them celebrate and remember why they're alive. So those are those are all things I get into.
Trae Holiday 04:35
I love that "art-tivism". All right, you got a fellow art-tivist right here.
Idris Goodwin 04:40
Yeah, I noticed.
Trae Holiday 04:41
Yeah, absolutely. And you know and that really leads me into the next question because I was able to see a little bit of your art-tivism actually, in videos, I got to ask you about this. you produce a video Just Say my Name or Say My Name, right.
Idris Goodwin 04:55
Yeah. Say My Name.
Trae Holiday 04:56
And I really want to get into you know, the inspiration first that your video - where did that come from you know what made you want to produce that video? Say, Say My Name.
Idris Goodwin 05:06
So okay, I'll try to keep a long story medium length. So, you know, I made my bones, initially as a rapper as an MC. And then I heard, I came up in Chicago in the late 90s, early aughts, when slam and spoken word poetry and a lot of hip hop kids were starting to enter that space. So I started hearing like people like Saul Williams, Jessica Care, Moore, these people with that intensity and swag of a rapper. But you know, they weren't rapping over beats or using turntables, like a lot of my sort of other more hip hop oriented community. So I started working, dabbling in spoken word, because a lot of the spoken word artists I knew were also doing a lot of teaching and a lot of work in communities. And I was very passionate about that, too. So you know, I had a background in that and randomly, you know, I was in my 30s, and um a really brilliant Black dramaturg Her name is Sydney Mahal and shout out Sydney Mahone basically gave me a prompt, she was like, write about your name. And I was like, write about my name. That's such a simplistic prop I write about matters of the soul. And, and, you know, and, and all this stuff just poured out of me, you know, when I started writing about my name, and, you know, that's been a thing throughout my whole whole life. So in writing about my name, I really started writing about my whole life. And when I started doing the piece, people, just audiences and listeners just responded to it. So well, you know, and they would be like, oh, that name piece, that name piece - I'm like, Yeah, yeah, they're like, no name piece. I'm like, I also do the new stuff, like, finally, I just, I learned to accept it, embrace it much like my name. And, and so I had a book coming, I had a book come out in 2019. And I was going back and forth, I was like, do I put my name in there, because it was a piece that kind of already existed for a few years. I was like, you know, people really liked that piece. So I'm gonna go ahead and put that that piece in the book. And so as a way to kind of also promote the book, I actually hired a crew, a camera crew out of LA, some former students of mine who are now kind of making it happen to LA, I flew them to Louisville, where I was living at the time, and I and I was like, I want to shoot this video, I want to, you know, create a document and arc for all the time. And, and, and the video is has been just as well received as the as the as the poem has and so I'm really proud of it. And and it just continues to teach me things you know, just about what people need versus what you need and what you think you don't need. And so it gives me a lot of satisfaction to see it received so well. So yeah, that's that.
Trae Holiday 07:34
absolutely. Well, great, great work on that. And I'll say too, I mean, looking at the production quality, it was well produced. So good luck to you know, your former students. I mean, honestly, kudos to them. They've definitely had you looking on point, I particularly love the fact that you started with something that is so common to many people when you're going to a coffee shop, and they have your name on the side of a cup. I deal with this. Personally, my name is TraeAnna, right, my full name. And it's spelled in a way where I have a capital letter of Anna, the A in the middle of my name is capitalized, but there's no space, it's not two separate things. So I'm always explaining all of that nuance to the point where I started to simplify it myself, to make it easier on myself. I really appreciated your perspective there, just in terms of going through your different layers of your name. And I think to it may speak a little bit to you know, obviously, your personal backstory, right? When you talking about something like art-tivism, it's clear that there's a specific mechanism for how you're going to shape what you're projecting out there, right, and what you're putting out there. And you've chosen to do that through the arts. You know, what really drove you in that regard? Clearly, though being a hip hop artist back in the day, and, you know, I'm sure just being infused by that, but let the audience understand, you know, what really had you say, you know, this is the way that I'm gonna...
Idris Goodwin 08:58
Yeah, well, you know, it's weird, right? Like, I've been reflecting on this more recently, because I'm, I'm getting a little deeper into my 40s now, and so I'm definitely like, reflecting back a lot and really just through reflection, learning more about myself and just being like, Wow, you really know, um, it's kind of crazy. I've, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do my whole life. Like, seriously, like, even when I was a real little kid, I just knew like creativity, imagination, storytelling, like, that's it, and I've had a million billion jobs and you know, whatever, whatever, but I'm just I just never really thought about doing anything else. I mean, I have moments where I'm like, I'm gonna go be a history teacher in elementary school in the hood, and they go make a really bad movie about me with somebody white, you know, but no, straight up. I mean, I've taken turns, right, like, you know, I thought it was gonna be filmmaking, and then I got pulled in this direction of theater. But I'm now doing more things for the screen, you know, so that's never really gone away. And I actually just had a conversation with a Brother I know who's doing a kicksta whole campaign and he's writing this movie, and he's gonna direct it. And he's like, man, help me with my script, look at my script. And, you know, and so, you know, I'm still doing that work too. So but but yeah, generally speaking, I'm just like, this is this has always been it for me, you know, unabashed. And I recognize I'm rare, like most A lot of people don't have that story to tell they, you know, like, I went to business school, and then I suddenly started playing guitar and like, vice versa, you know, for me, it was always this.
Trae Holiday 10:28
Yeah, you know, you're really speaking to somebody who is like, I've always known it. And even when I think that in my own lived experience, especially when you're young, and you know, you go to I went to Howard for their theater program. Like, for me, you know, I was a thespian through and through, like, down hard, you know, like a leader, in the group. And I was, you know, so for me, it was always a thing. And then I got, I had this kind of, like, shock moment at Howard, where I was like, ah man, you know, here I am, I had missed the audition. So I'll tell you a bit about this - I missed the audition. So I end up in a one on one acting one on one class, and I'm a trooper, at this point. I'm like, at the 300 level, I'm like, Oh, no, I am advanced. Like, I've been doing it. I've learned I theater managed behind the scenes in front, in the camera behind the camera. Like, I've tried to get all of the experience from like nine years old, up until that point, right. And so I'm like, you know, young 18 I'm, I got nine years in, you know, like, come on. I've been I've been learning I've been doing this. But really, I think my experience there maybe shocked me and go oh wait, like, is that a career? Do I want auditions for the rest of my life? And my, you know, is there something else I can be doing? While I'm at Howard that would be more solidified than just having that, you know, kind of moment of like, Ah, man, am I going to be okay, there. And it's funny because I, my second semester, I did clinical laboratory science, so I could become a physician's assistant. And my theater mentor literally said to me, oh, that's funny. You'll always do theater, like you're one of those people, you will always find a way to use the arts to infuse, you know what you do. And so that takes me into like, now understanding the intersectionality of theater of equity of civic engagement.
Idris Goodwin 12:14
Exactly
Trae Holiday 12:15
Again, this, I love this term that you just taught me today, art-tivism, but really you taking that into a specific realm, I think connecting to this movement that we're seeing so globally, go up after George Floyd, I really want to ask you about that. Because this movement right now, and this this time is so specific. And so different then other times, you know, how do you see that intersectionality in what you do, really playing a role in this larger movie right now?
Idris Goodwin 12:43
Yeah, that's a great, yeah. Wow. Okay, so I on on June 19 Juneteenth of this last year, I dropped a project called the free plays open source scripts for an anti racist tomorrow. And it's a collection of five short plays that are aimed at multi generational audiences. Right. So, you know, there's a six year old character and adult character and it's, you know, a lot of that and so it's like, it's recommended for kids as young as like five or six on up to, you know, really adults, you know, and, and they were written intentionally to, because because I knew a lot of families were home right now. So we have the dual pandemics, which means that everyone's home kids are out of school. And then you've got this other pandemic of Breanna Taylor, George Floyd, Ahmad Arbury, this now second real, you know, what, really like 10,000th but really, second wave of specifically under this Black lives matter, narrative or lens or umbrella, this sort of second wave happening and so you've got kids who were like 5 6 7 8 years old, asking what it what is Black lives matter? And why is why are there protests and what's going on? And so I wanted to my my immediate response was like, through drama, through through people, literally just reading a play, reenacting a moment, there can be these little invitations to have deeper conversations. And so I dropped them on Juneteenth, because there's a two plays that are kind of sort of related to Juneteenth that provide opportunities for families to talk about what here's the history of Juneteenth. This is what happened with Juneteenth and then immediately be able to talk about now, right, so by talking about them, we can talk about now. And then there's other shows who play it play in the series called Water Gun Song, which is a child and their parent, talking about water guns and the use of guns in the house and what and the politics of that which sort of alludes to Tamir Rice, you know, and then there's a piece called Hash Tag Matter, which is, you know, two old friends reuniting as young adults and kind of unpacking the fact that they came up in the same city in the same time and all that but they still experienced the world different. And then there's another play called Black Flag, which is about a two freshmen who have been communicating all summer as they go on their freshman year and then as they're unpacking, as they're unpacking, one student pulls out a confederate flag, you know, more but more and sort of like a pop culture, Kid Rock kind of way, like not thinking anything of it and then her roommate who was Black and not from the south is like, fixated on it and trying to has to make some decisions about I got to be with this person for a whole school year, do I address this or not do I get labeled as the angry Black girl or you know, all of this. And so, you know, these four shows really providing platforms and opportunities. And and I put them out intentionally on this website on TYUSA's website and was like, anybody can download them they're for you, if you want to produce them and do them on zoom, if you want to do them in the church, basement, socially distance, of course, whatever you want. And from that, and over the past six or seven months, just like a diversity of different types of communities. And people have downloaded the plays and presented them children's theaters, but also like the educational wing of Kaiser Permanente did an event schools. So you know, all of that. And so, it was a really powerful and profound an eye opening experience for me as an artist, and really like is pushing me even more in this movement of open source plays that specifically relate to what's happening in society in the zeitgeist, and and just completely removing, making making the quote unquote, means of production, scalable to whoever, meaning if you're a huge theater, you can do it and dress it up. If you're a small up and coming group, if you're a group out of a college or whatever, you can also do it, you know, and so being intentional about it in that way. So that's the that's the first thing that comes to mind. Cuz that's like, literally what's happening as we speak.
Trae Holiday 16:35
That's beautiful. I think that what I'm seeing throughout not only this podcast, but particularly this movement, and this, this iteration of this movement, specifically, is that there is such a great infusion. I remember when they started doing food fusions, right, so one of the great ones here is called Marination Station, right? in Seattle. And it's a food truck, but it was like, you know, they were infusing, like, you know, traditional, like, Hawaiian type stuff with like American stuff. So you had this like, oh, spam with, you know, something, you're like, Oh, wait, you know, is that like, we don't do spam, but it's like, that's what they're eating. So they were utilizing it. And I, I remember, like, my initial thought was like Seattle is going crazy with. We're having fusion all over the place. But really the best, the best thing about fusion, what I'm seeing in this movement, is that it is doing just that by utilizing something like arts. And being able to showcase this movement in this moment, particularly with regard to like theater, what you just described with open source is beautiful. We're seeing a large swell of artists, activists, I think art-tivists - Absolutely. Because when we talk about those who have been painting the Black Lives Matter of murals in different cities, we have one right here in Seattle, right in Capitol Hill. And it's like, that was a great way that they were like, Look, yeah, we're putting our emotions, our feelings of this time, right here on the canvas right here on the street, or, you know, we're taking up space, we're definitely creating murals on the sides of buildings, we're sharing, we're sharing our art by utilizing messaging as well. And, you know, I wanted to ask you, because this is such a, I think, a different time for so many of us and as a Black person in this country, you know, and you just said you have children, your children are, you know, lifting you up and keeping you you know, vibrant, right? What is it in terms of a father, a Black father in this country? How do you really foresee a lot of this, this movement right now shaping and changing things for your children's future?
18:48
That's a great, that's a great question. Um, so I am, I have this. You know, I've been doing a lot of like virtual keynotes and stuff lately, and I have this this little anecdote is a little bit about this rapper named Logic. I don't know if y'all know Logic, he's an MC out of Maryland. And you know, really had a really, you know, just doing pretty pretty well known how to growing following and had hits and all this kind of stuff. And he recently retired because he was like, yeah, you know, I'm married I got a kid now and I want to have a quote unquote, normal life and um, and I was really ruminating on that one was just like, you know, in a creative life, to me is normal. And then the second thing I thought about was like, I'm like, I know he's gonna very soon realize that he needs to use all of his gifts to try to make the world a better, safer place for his son, that his role as a father is to is to not stop the thing that he did that you know, got him you know, that there's more than just made him a living but really well no, no, I use that I when I say make make a living, I mean it more literally, not metaphorically. I make a living they make money. I say make a living meaning, quite literally, this is what you're making of your life and so So that's how I think of it is that I think of like, to me, it's important for to model being a citizen artist. For my kid is just like, this is something I'm passionate about, this is something I'm disciplined in, and this is also my contribution to try to make the world better for you, and that there is a responsibility as a human being. And so for me, you know, and not shying away from those questions. So when he asked about the protests, we asked about Black Lives Matter, you know, I try to answer him as best I can. And leave it at that and just always be available for those kinds of conversations. But there is also a sense of urgency to that a sense of urgency has a purpose around, I have to do something, you know, saying like, not just for my own shows, or for other people's shows, but like, but that's the job is like young people, and old people, like those of us in the middle of that, that's our job is to protect them is to protect vulnerable people. That's why we got to protect trans people. That's why men gotta protect women. That's why, you know, like, we got to protect the vulnerable with any with any powers that you that you have, you know, I'm saying and so, and again, that's something I want to model for them, you know, in addition to all those other things. Listen, by the way, I'm not saying that I'm good at all this stuff, or that I figured it out, I'm saying that this is what I aspire to. Yeah, I fail. I fail many days, but I aspire to it.
Trae Holiday 21:24
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, there's so many of us, it's about the resilience in the attempts to get it. Right. Right? And, and how you're just staying focused on that, and allowing that to be kind of your guiding factor for how you absorb all of these things. And I think, you know, so much of this work, you know, you were saying this earlier, I think you just so right, that, you know, as a nation, the education piece, I think, is so critical to so much of this, because you know, and in that regard, we have to be able to share these stories in a multitude of ways. Because the education that comes from it, the learning that comes from that storytelling, and that narrative building is the important part. Right. It's not just storytelling for storytelling sake.
Idris Goodwin 22:12
That's right,
Trae Holiday 22:12
just for entertainment. And I think that that is why for me, I get really excited about this podcast right here. Like the products that we're creating at King County Equity Now, they have to really move the needle forward with regard to how the nation is understanding a lot of these concepts. How do you wear that kind of, you know, responsibility on your shoulders?
Idris Goodwin 22:38
Yeah, well, for real quick, I just want to respond to what you're saying about storytelling, because I just engaged with there's this brilliant man out of Washington, DC, his name's David Hunt. And He's, uh, he's he's all about like, the ways in which we can unlock the power of storytelling to make our organizations stronger. And personally, and also organizationally. So I brought him in to talk to my whole staff the other day. And, and the thing he kept saying is that we're all like, human beings are storytellers, period, like some of us decide to take it on as a quote, unquote, craft, or become, quote unquote, masters of it, but we all do it in some way. And to me, if that's who we are, fundamentally, that means education. Is that like, you know, it's that's how we learn. I mean, we learn THROUGH THROUGH THROUGH sight, you know, so I was reading, I was reading this play about textbooks, about the textbook industry, and did a lot of research. And one of the things that I started kind of getting into was can an AI, is an AI ever going to replicate the traditional instructor. And I happened upon this, this thing called the, the mirror, something, something involving the word mirroring, but basically, the idea is that students learn through watching an adult master knowledge.
Trae Holiday 23:55
Yes, mirror effect
Idris Goodwin 23:56
Yeah, exactly. So it's, it's not just what the person's saying. It's that I'm watching another human master having with knowledge, like and so that's also how I'm learning to be just quote unquote, knowledgeable, right? And so, you know, for me, I just wanted to you just reminded me of this conversation I just had, you know, on Monday or Tuesday about how that's just we all do. We're all storytellers, you know, and, and which means that we have to recognize and really, center story listening also has a very intentional act as well, like we're doing with each other right now. We're just swapping stories.
Trae Holiday 24:33
absolutely.
Idris Goodwin 24:34
To your other your latter question about how do I how do I shoulder that? Can you could you kind of dig into I'm not sure I understood the question. Exactly. I want to answer correctly. Yeah.
Trae Holiday 24:44
So for me, right. Yeah. Well, in my role as an organizer, as a media producer, and really, again, a steward of kind of the community and really educating through community stories. I find that it's very important for me to always be thinking about or have at the center of, you know, my creative process, that my end product needs to be educating my community, right, that this educational aspect of the, you know, the the products we're creating, I mean, I just think about that, say, say my name video, right? where it's like, yeah, it's spoken word, it's fun, and you're doing it in a way, but you're also educating people on, you know, hey, how important names are. And and this idea that even Oh, my gosh, what you said about your, you know, previous employer, you know, just changing your name completely right to Eddie, it's like, I mean, honestly, what the nerve, you know, so that's what I'm kinda saying is that so much Now, in our creative products, we also need to be toeing that line, because our, our communities, our nation, you know, people here, a lot of them, unfortunately, are just ignorant, the facts haven't been given to them. The education, you know, especially with public education, it has failed a lot of Americans. So So now, I feel that every product I'm creating this right here is a fun conversation I'm having with you, but it's not educating somebody else on the importance of, you know, infusing equity into all of these facets of the work we do, what am I doing here? Right. So I always put that out. It's like something I carry with me every time I'm creating content. And I just wondered about that for you as a another content creator, somebody that's utilizing a creative space to kind of share your talent. You just named five plays that are kind of doing it right. But so it's clear that you already have this idea in how you, you know, produce things, you know, but yeah,
Idris Goodwin 26:49
yes, no, I get you. Wow, so many thoughts as you were talking, one one is that, you know, this really is what education looks like, I mean, the problem with a lot of these institutions, right? You know, you know, from education to policing, all of it is they're so out of date, they're just out of date, you know, it's like, our apps on our phones get updated constantly. Sometimes we don't even realize it, right? Like, don't don't worry about we just gonna do it. It's good for you. Right? And so it's outpacing, you know, there's so many other things that are like, especially now we're in the quote, unquote, information age, right. And so the devices we have, that's what they deliver, they deliver us information at lightning speed, and it's constantly updating itself to say, How do I get and transfer information in the most efficient way constantly. Meanwhile, we still are cramming 25 people in a class still got textbooks still got you know, it hasn't what's the 2.0 2.5? You know, you know, we get new iPhones and new androids every year, where's the new version of public education? Where's the new version of that? And so, you know, things like podcasting things, like, you know, even games I mean, people frown on games, it's like, yo, no, make your kids should be playing games, okay, like, literally, like, they need to look cuz because and so for me, it's just sort of embracing any, any, any, just all the modes for communication, because to me, it's like, inherently, inherently, folks are going to learn something from what they hear or what they watch. So I think it's us being mindful of what is it that were exhibiting or discussing, right? So I think that's where we get into, you know, when people talk about the quote, unquote, power of the media, or you know, this, that in the third, it's like, that's really what they're talking about. They're talking about the use of fear tactics versus the use of whatever the opposite of fear tactics are right. Courage, tactics, bravery tactics. I mean, I don't know. So you know, and but there is this animal, instinctual part of our brains that is hardwired for fear, which is just, you know, because we're, you know, we're, we're animals, and we're very soft and vulnerable in our bones break and we get cold and so we're, we're wired to be very leery and fearful. And so then that means that we got to go harder, with positivity, you know, this is why we got to go harder with things that are the counter to that. And so that's, that's really what I think about, it's just the energy and the conversations, the conversation I'm trying to foment and elicit you know, I started this thing on my birthday called 52 by 10, which is every week, I just do it on my Instagram. And every week I just picked a different organization, you know, whether it's arts, health, education, whatever, and I just give them 10 bucks. And really the point of it is just to kind of like familiarize, you know, people familiarize myself but also familiarize others with organizations or even make them look for the ones in their own backyard, right. So I always make sure I, you know, I look at people in my state people in my city, but also nationally, too. And I've been doing that since September. So I think I'm about 11 episodes in now. But that's just my little way also to just be like, this is a conversation that I'm interested in is like who's doing the work? Like we spend so much time obsessing about presidents and congresspeople and all that. And it's like, fam, who's your council person? What are the districts in your city that are, you know, I'm saying that are, you know, what is your local politics is local, right? And you can do stuff people be acting all paralyzed, like oh they didn't pass this bill. And it's like, that's important too. But Yo, like, my son, my son was watching my wife fill out her mail-in ballot. And he was very curious about this because he's curious about everything. And you know, I was showing him like, the front part of this is like, this is this is the these are, these are the headliners. This is like the president... But I flipped it over. I'm like, all this stuff here on the back. with smaller font that's crammed up, I'm like, this is the stuff that actually affects you. Tomorrow, this is about your school. This is about whether or not you have a park, this is like, you know, if there's if they when the tax money goes, does it go to your park? Does it go to your books? Or is it going to go to you know, whatever, so it's about pollution? You know, so, you know, for me, I think I've gotten really far away from your question, but but I'm just thinking, just just themes in the air. It's like, you know, but that, but that's what I what I'm really, I think all ultra conscious of is like, what is it that what energy do I want to put on the world? What kind of conversation Am I trying to, to stimulate or foster or contribute to? And also like, what, what people and what energy Am I trying to draw to me as well, that's why it's so great, that we're having this conversation too. And then I'm getting to know you as well, because again, it's like, you know, I, you're the type of person and you're fomenting the type of conversation that I want to also be involved in. And so like we should know, each other, right. And so that's the thing, too, is that I'm actively trying to also find the others who are also having this conversation, you know, so that we can just widen that widen that circle and we're in this amazing time, we're like, you know, in the in, you know, back in the day, I would have to be like in Seattle for a couple days of you have to coordinate and let me see if I'm coming studio. And, and this is like, you know, we schedule, we found a time that works for us both through through through a digital platform through a digital app, we're talking to each other through a, you know, digital software. And, you know, and that's just, that's just the moment we're in, and I think we're both you know, just using it for, for that purpose to have a conversation about about equity, you know,
Trae Holiday 32:26
I mean, you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly when I told the team, as we were structuring this podcast, I said, the biggest thing to me that I want to be doing is making connections and building friendships, and building relationships with folks that are equity changemakers, across the world, like, ultimately, there's a lot of us, there's a lot of amazing movements happening, a lot of positive energy happening. And it really is showcasing what grassroots level can really do. And, you know, here, this is why we you know, at King County equity, now we already have these relationships, right? So bringing folks in from that relational perspective was like, Alright, boom we are that relationships are there by boom, we're gonna bring everybody in. And everybody was like, Yeah, because we already know each other, it was easier to even form an ecosystem based on, you know, organizations doing the work, because those relationships are there. And you just said something to that, I think is so crucial and key because as we talk about, you know, utilizing these platforms, utilizing this moment, to really educate the nation, I find that I'm so I think, inspired by all of the work that really happens, particularly in communities, and there's almost if you get no purer than that, because when you start going up the level, right, I think of someone like Barack Obama, who started as like a community organizer, down in the streets, you know, I'm saying and then to now and just recently him saying, you know, well, you know, this, defending the police, counterproductive or whatever, it's like, that's not that's nonsense, almost. And I'm like, what?
Idris Goodwin 34:06
You know, can I acutally say that - might get in trouble here. But first off, you know, I distinctly remember when they were trying to clown him, the other side was trying to clown him for saying, he was just a community organizer. And I'm like, what's wrong with community organizers? Martin Luther King Jr. was a communtiy organizer. Like what are we were talking about, like, all our hippie Jesus was a community organizer. Why is that wack? Like, they're like, you know, we - we see what happened when we had the fake billionaire, right. I actually am on the side of, I also think the word defund is not the right verb choice, because here's why. And I think his point and listen, he's a he's a, he's a he's a negotiator type. he's a he's a middle ground centrist type. He's about what's going to be effective. He's a strategy guy. So he, I think that quote is like, that's him talking about strategy. He's like, that's not a strategic move. Like In order to he said, He's saying he doesn't think that that's the best strategic move is that slogan because the problem with slogans is they start to lose their, they're just they, you know, they, you know, get the GAP takes, you know, defund lint, you know? And, and so, but but me myself, I think about that too, because I have two thoughts on this. And we can debate it, you know? Yeah, respectfully because well, first thing is this. A lot of people being a police officer is a is a blue collar service job, it's like being a fireman or a nurse or in so everyone's their uncles, their cousins, their aunties, the, you know, it's a job a lot of people have. So we say that immediately, some folks are going to immediately get defensive, because they're like, why are you trying to come from my job? Again, it's not what they mean, like, there's a level to defund the police. There's a level to, there's levels to it. But I think, again, people just hear the slogan. And so that's like, saying defund nurses, because like, some of them, you know, you know, and there's a racist legacy for everything for teachers, for all of it Right. And so and so, it's, it's too, it's, it's, there's too many levels to it, I think, for the average person, you know, and so that's one. And then I think the second piece is, to me, I don't know, like, for me, I just like, I just tweeted this the other day, so it must be worth talking about is I said we needed actually what we need to defund is racism, because that's what this problem is, it's not about money, because the guys who murdered Ahmaud Arbery you know, they were not being funded by anyone, you know, but you know, the people who murdered Emmett Till we could go on and on and on, right, this is not a - Like, I understand the idea is like, we aint gonna fund y'all because your state's sanctioned murderers, I get that ideas about about accountability. But I just think what we're really talking about is something is more about emotions and perspective. You know, it's like, it's more about reform. It's about retraining. It's about rethinking, it's about re mixing. I just think they're more effective verbs personally, like, I get it, like when people say, defund the police, like I get it. But again, if you're like, the average person, and all your brothers are cops, and they're good, guys, and you hear defund the police, you immediately are gonna say later, what, why?
Trae Holiday 37:20
Yeah, like you said that defensive nature, I think, when when I hear this, right, there's a multitude of things that happened for me, because again, I always think, okay, if anybody any I think influencer celebrity, anybody who has a large following audience, whatever, right? At the end of the day, you know, a lot of that is based on like your personal your personality, the things you say, like the things that come from from you as a person, and not necessarily your position. Obviously, somebody like Barack Obama, he's known because he was the first Black president in the United States. Right. So clearly, he has already this position in people's mind. Oh, he'll always be the first Black president, in the United States no matter what he cemented in that, and he's the only one that will ever have that title. Right. But so for me, I think it's about how do you how do you utilize that platform right now, what we're hearing in the streets, we just talked about this today. So this may be really dated by the time our episode airs. But it's all good, because I think it's really important that when you have that type of reach, I don't mind kind of the centrist mentality. But I do think that to dismiss something as like, Oh, that's not the way to go about that. Like, it sounded to me like an old fart, who was like, Hey, you young folks can't keep go on about the defund! But no, but like, that's what that's all I heard, unfortunately. And that actually is what happens with a lot of younger people. And when we talk about the trust of politicians, of elected officials, of getting young folks engaged in civic engagement, and being that kind of stakeholder in their town, in their city, in their state, where they understand, oh, man, this is, you know, here's my Councilman, here's my that my laws that are gonna be local, like, here's all of these things that are going to affect me and my lived experience, personally, I'm giving to them, or I'm going to understand them wholeheartedly so that I can vote accordingly. I think that's what we're talking about when we hear when young folks hear something like that. They're like, man, they don't get in any way, you know, like they might never get it. So I think that one of the things that I love about being able to utilize that platform well, is to say, Yeah, like look, that may be the language that has bubbled up to the surface. But this is what it means because again, going back to what I was just talking about, I think right now, every moment is a teachable moment. Every moment has the ability to do this kind of across the aisle types that I hate that word across the aisle.
Idris Goodwin 38:46
But he is though! I do too - I can't stand it.
Trae Holiday 39:24
At least when I say you know exactly what I'm saying, because this collective nature of how do we utilize our education and our statements to bring people together rather than to, you know, further create these wedges? And I think he could have said, No, look, I mean, I may not like the word defund. But this is like five things that they mean by that. And this is a way that we as a nation can begin to get educated on what that means that that would have been a lot better, but because that's not in joe biden's plan, right? He doesn't want to defund. So that is like, again, it goes down to some political strategy stuff that unfortunately, in the Black communities, we haven't seen the rises, we haven't seen that equity, really begin to flip things on its head where we're starting to see Black home ownership grow Black education, Black wealth, where we really start to see those gains. So that's what you know, for me, that's where a lot of this comes from. And I think a lot of it too, is about folks like you and myself. I mean, just be honest, it really is. It's about kind of us collectivizing nationally, and us being able to say, Well, hey, look, I know that there's a brother in Colorado, who's doing some phenomenal work with regard to our art-tivism, you know what I'm saying? And if you're, if you're an artist, if you're trying to get plugged in, at least that's one contact I have out there, right, and this podcast is helping me do that. And so I agree with you with regard to some of the language, but I think also to every moment is teachable, and how do we as, as changemakers, as artists, as activists, as organizers, as those who are doing this, a lot of this grassroots on the ground, even the everyday marchers, the ones that are out there protesting every day, the ones that are, you know, going to every rally to educate themselves, and, and this new group that I call the Awakeners, which is like, you know, a lot of white folks who were like, Look, I didn't realize this, but I do now, and I'm not waiting, you know what I mean? Like, if there's a wide spectrum, I think of so many people who are ready for change, and how do we as a nation? recognize that?
Idris Goodwin 42:01
I think Yeah, and that's, that's very well said, and I think yeah, I think, um, I mean, what I want to go back and see the full the fullness, because I think, you know, obviously they probably picked that one line, because the line was something like you lose people, when you use words, like defund the police. And I'm like, yeah, this is someone who's been reared in running elections, right. So they're all they're wired to be like, Oh, I can't lose anyone, I can't lose the crowd. And to your point, and I and I want to read the full quote, because then I'm sure he was probably like, but I, you know, be probably had some other stuff to say, and you're right. And I think, yeah, where was his man's he, you know, when he needs he needs like it was his man. It was just, yeah, but you know, but that's what the streets is saying. And that's the thing about it. It's like, you have to honor what the streets are saying. Because it doesn't also mean that, that these folks who are saying the defund the police are ludicrous, or that there's no psychology behind it, because that's what they try to do with the green New Deal, too. They try to make it sound like it's ludicrous. And it's like, it's no more ludicrous than coal and fossil fuel and poisoning the planet and all this ridiculousness that y'all just want to like, stick your head in the sand about right, you tell me? That's not ludicrous? That's not ridiculous. You know, I'm saying, and so, yeah, I mean, I do think to your point to it is about you know, it is about those of you know, it, those of us in between the sort of Obama's and Biden's of the world. And you know, the quote, unquote, average person, right, there are these advocates, translators, champions in our cities, that, that were that are a lot closer to you, you know, and so again, it's like, we don't need to always just look for these people, these could be superheroes or whatever, in, you know, in DC, and in these places we can't get to when you got people in your own communities who are really straight up fighting for you every day. You know,
Trae Holiday 43:53
I love that so much. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think that this is why another reason why we do this, because it's about uplifting those people globally, and it's also really inspiring, because you realize, Hey, I'm not alone. You know what I mean, there's amazing people doing this work. And it's so awesome to me. And so I want to ask you to about a bit of your travels, because I know, for me, you know, traveling is really helped cement a lot of my ideology around this work. I spent time in Europe, I spent time in Kenya. And that was very purposeful, right? Like, let me just see some some, you know, different facets of the world so I can have a more global perspective. I just want to ask you have your travels really helped infuse how you approached some of your work.
Idris Goodwin 44:39
Where in Kenya were you?
Trae Holiday 44:41
in Mombasa
Idris Goodwin 44:42
Okay, yeah, I've been I spent like a week or so in Niarobi, a couple years, many years ago, and it was very, very transformative. Yeah. I Think about it all the time.
Trae Holiday 44:52
actually way more vibrant than people would ever think to right. I mean, so many people and so many things going on in Nairobi.
Idris Goodwin 45:00
Yeah, it's also just I just remember the feeling of just being seeing Black people. So like so much not like, oh, like, I went to Atlanta or like you know, but like, just really like this is a Black run place you know and and that and just how powerful that was for me just as an as a quote unquote African American descendant of stolen Africans. So you know, so one of the things that has been really difficult in this 9 - 10 months of the pandemic life is is it's really had me reflecting on how integral traveling had become in my life. Mostly national You know, I've traveled the country you know, sometimes I've been to Amman, Jordan a bunch of times I've been to you know, some of the islands I've been to Canada
Trae Holiday 46:00
got to include Canada. Yeah.
Idris Goodwin 46:02
But But mostly very national, you know, and especially with my my playwriting work and so much speaking work and you know, a lot of DC a lot of new york a lot of Boston and Chicago a ton and Seattle a bunch I was coming here and working with Seattle Children's Theatre and and yeah, I mean, I really miss it because it made me It's making me realize like, not just Was it my career, it was also feed in and also not just my career, but like building my network and friend and friend base. I mean, some of these folks that I've worked with have become like my friends, you know, but it really feeds something very core to me as a as a carbon based life form, which is just the need to be around different vibration, different energy, my curiosity, see, best practices, you know, culture, you know, I'm a culture fiend like, I love different languages and accents and histories and cuisine and music, and I love history - huge history nerd. And so you know, all of that, all of that. All that stuff. So yeah, no, traveling to me is probably the thing I can't wait to get back to the soonest, you know, I was doing it a little too much. I was it was starting to really wear my body down. So but, but I do definitely miss. I started I found myself the other day, like, I'm like, I missed the airport. I was like, and not even just that I missed, but it was like, I missed the moment, I missed the moment where I arrive in a new city, and I'm working my way through the airport. And I like get my cab and I like, I'm looking out the window. And I'm like, so this is Pittsburgh, and I, you know, and just in just thinking about like, Okay, I got this at this time, and I'm gonna eat here that you know, that kind of, like, the random moment of missing just that part of it. Not even this particular city, you know, so yeah, no, it's, it's it's pretty key and core.
Trae Holiday 47:56
Yeah, I think you're so right and because I think when we talk about being kind of a creator of any sort, really having exposure to different people, different scenes, different environments is so helpful. I know. For me, it really is. And I agree with you that it's important for me when I travel, that I embed myself in the culture, whatever that is, Wherever I am, right where I'm like, Okay, um, you know, I'm back to DC. I'm going straight to you know, I'm going to Ben's Chili bowl and I'm not gonna, you know, like, I want all the things and like, Where are you eating? Like, no, I don't want the fancy don't I want to go to the food truck that got the line around the corner. That is always my thing. Because I think so many things. When you think about I've talked about this too. And this is something I don't like, where there was this homogenization of the nation right and then I start going everywhere and I'm like, Oh my god, that looks like Seattle. This strip mall is just like I mean, if you give me an olive garden and whatever, you got it all right there and I'm like, oh, man, you know
Idris Goodwin 48:59
and yeah Time Time Square New York Times Square in New York City is a perfect example of like it's over like regionalism is under fire. You know, because like if you got like the quote unquote center of the nation, you know, this that's supposed to represent this cosmopolitan light and it's just huge billboards and lot red lobsters and H and M's and m&m store like you're, it's over like yeah, there's still some spots in some of the boroughs, you know, Queens and other parts, but, you know, like that, like what they did the Time Square, I think was the beginning of like, okay, we're in a different we're in a different America, but I think regionalism is coming back for sure. You know, you have you know, you have these cities like Portland and cities like Austin and you know, to be honest, I mean, I'll say it like, you know, part of one of my goals, you know, cuz I lived in Colorado Springs for six years, and then I left and lived in Louisville for two. And then I recently moved back to Colorado Springs, and I said, Okay, if I'm going to come back, I'm coming back to really affect some change before I was like, I'm just a guy who needs a job. I'm just here right? Now, I'm like nah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna live here and I'm gonna really make my mark on it, I'm gonna put my stank on it, so to speak. And, you know, my goal is to kind of move it towards kind of an Austin, I want, I want to really build the arts, you know, the arts vibe here, really, and really start using arts to bring people out and gather their stories and really engage with them and be like, what, what are you into, like, you know what I mean, because it's a very functional city, you know, it's very, it's just functional. It's like, well, we need this and we need. And there's a lot of hiking and outdoor that kind of stuff. But like, but I know there's an arts scene here, and there's artists here and as creatives here, and I know, everyone loves art, because everyone art is about them. So my goal is to really start to define it more and start to really just be in constant conversation and kind of build a demand and a hunger, you know, for the arts here and get in get known, you know, Denver, Denver, you know, in the past many years, this has really become much more of a real market for the arts gotten much more serious about it. And I think we can do, we can do the same because, yeah, this is where I live myself. I live here, it's got to be poppin low bass
Trae Holiday 51:14
That's right now that's ready. Geez, hey, you let me know, whenever you need me to come on down, man, I was a collaborative project.
Idris Goodwin 51:22
Let's go.
Trae Holiday 51:24
Before I let you go, the last one of the last things I really want to ask you. Before we wrap up here, thank you so much for your time. Really, really, I want to check in because you just kind of hit the nail on the head a little bit here, when you were talking about traveling and missing traveling. So I just want to ask so many of us making adjustments for COVID? What has the COVID world been like for you? How have you adjusted and continue to do all of your work?
Idris Goodwin 51:49
Oh, boy, um, I'll tell you this. So I have like, kind of six core principles that define me that are sort of at my core, you know, and, and those carry me through any kind of condition, any kind of change in the country, anything, you know, whatever is like I always go back to the six core things. And again, I'm just super grateful that this is happening in this moment. Like I'm a Reagan baby, like, I'm I was born in the late 70s. I'm like, I can't imagine if this would have happened in the rotary phone era. Like, I don't know, what we would have done seriously. Like, it would have been very, very different. Like you think it's hard to get people to stay home wear masks now, like, a lot of us would have had to have just, you know, so, you know, so it's been challenging in other ways. But in terms of my work, like I've still been, I've still been writing, you know, I mean, like, content creation, you know, is, is, you know, I think weathers all storms, it's like the ability to make the ability to create the ability to tell stories and try to engage people is timeless, you know, and so in a way, it's been really a great reminder of that. And I'm leaning and living in that much more. You know, purpose, you know, yeah, yeah. How about you?
Trae Holiday 53:07
you know what, thanks for asking. I mean, honestly, it the biggest adjustment has been, I think that the organizing needed to be front it was like essential organizing and getting people educated. And so I'm always - anytime anybody asked me that, I'm like, Man, I'm balancing motherhood, right? Because my, because then it's like, man, how do i do i get home too late to cook a dinner. Kids are with my parents until I can get there. Their dad comes again. It's just such a just trying to balance the basic motherhood around this is where I find challenges, honestly. And so I you know, I have a 14 year old Oh, he'll be 15 on Saturday. It's coming up so quickly. But yeah, yeah. So, but a 14 year old and a six year old, right, and both of their birthdays. And my birthday is all this month in the month of December.
Idris Goodwin 54:02
Wow, holy archery, Batman!
Trae Holiday 54:04
So for me, December is always a busy month, right? I think about them, and I think about just making sure that they feel the love, because I never want to Oh, man, you just took me here. I just recently heard a song. It was a song. And it was a I watched the video of this song is old. But basically, it was like saying to his mother in the song, like, I appreciated that you were this phenomenal worker, however, I wanted you to be with me. I just and I can't remember the name of the song right now. But this song, I just heard it this week. And I was like, oh man that's striking me at the core. Because you know, again, this is like a revolution, right? We're like, I'm like I tell my kids daily sons. We're in the middle of a revolution, you know, mommy has to be on the frontlines. And like I may have to get you guys ready to be on the frontlines one day who knows what this is going to look like. And I want to prepare you for that right but at the end of the day, I also want them to understand the importance of this moment? This moment we're in?
Idris Goodwin 55:04
Absolutely
Trae Holiday 55:05
I agree with you that if we don't continue to press for, okay, fine, don't call it defund, talk about reinvesting in community. But at the end of the day, we need us a systemic shift, that really is going to change a lot of things, and really bring about equity for all people. And it really does start with Black equity. Because we know in this country, and Black people do better everybody else does better. That's just the truth. So you know,
Idris Goodwin 55:33
that's a bar and a half.
Trae Holiday 55:37
So that's really why, you know, and where I find myself trying to educate my kids on a lot of that, because the motherhood with COVID is, you know, it just made everything kind of elevate in my world, right. And then, like, I'm not I don't get to stay at home and do this, this work, I got an organized protest, I got to be out here educate community, I got to educate our stakeholders on why we take this approach, right. So all of it to me is really important. So thank you for asking me that
Idris Goodwin 56:04
Oh year, fo sho
Trae Holiday 56:04
I enjoyed bonding with you on that it's effecting us all so differently, but yet at the same time, it's making us all do something different. Right. So that's, that's, that's the unifining nature of coding. Before I let you go, though, is there anything I did not touch on? We did not touch on that you got to make sure our audience hears from you, Mr. Idris?
Idris Goodwin 56:25
Well, a couple a couple, a couple of shameless plugs. I mean, so one is, you know, again, I'm at the Colorado Springs fine art center at Colorado College. And, you know, we're, we're really about, you know, so one of the things that drew me to it is that it's multidisciplinary, that it's it's visual arts, performing arts, and it's also like arts education, and we're all part of a college, but we're also very public facing and, you know, to me, I took the job because it's really built on a lot of the values that I have around innovation or access around conversation around diversity, all of that for real and, and so when COVID hit, you know, we, we created this digital platform called FAC. Connect. And in we're funding a lot, we're trying to tell the story of our region, like the Southwest, the American Southwest is so rich and interesting and unique, but it's also in a lot of ways a microcosm of the whole country. And so, you know, I just want to encourage any of your listeners to to check us out at FAC.ColoradoCollege.edu a lot of cool art content on there. And we have an E museum. And we're very intentionally trying to like use our website and our platforms to still do our work and kind of begin to change the our ideas about, you know, what art centers can provide, right? The second shameless plug is, you know, if you enjoyed the say, My name peace, check out the book that it comes from, which is called Can I kick it, which is a book that was published last year on Haymarket books as part of the breakbeat poets series. And yeah, that's it. And it's been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure, pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for inviting me and just thank you for having this platform. It's really dope.
Trae Holiday 57:58
Oh, thank you, man. This is really what it's about, I think making these kind of connections. So now, you know, you got a sister up in Seattle. I know I got a bro down in Colorado and it's gonna be on. And honestly, I probably will be seeing you. Maybe even sometime in 2021. My brother lives out there in Denver. Yes, I mean, I got actual blood connections out there. And he was just up here recently, and he said, Look, you come down. I got a room for you. Everything says so. If I make that trek you I'll be here. You'll be hearing for me for sure.
Idris Goodwin 58:30
Come come see about us
Trae Holiday 58:32
Thank you so much. Again. Idris this was fabulous. I'm just I'm elated so thank you so much.
Idris Goodwin 58:37
Thank you so much, Peace
Trae Holiday 58:39
Peace. Oh, I leave it like this. Okay, that's it. These guys. You know, I was about to hit leave a while I was about to touch anything. These guys will do it. Linnea. Okay I'm gonna bring you on. There you are. Well, I was about to touch buttons, Julia. Julia was like Hey, no. That was phenomenal. Idris, Wow. Yeah, it was so great. I mean, really, and I meant that every wod of it. Today when I come out there. I'll make sure I get your number. You're probably get a text from me. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, man. This has been phenomenal. It's so great to hear more about what you're doing and to learn because and for me, I'm just glad there's Black people out there in Colorado.
Idris Goodwin 59:25
Oh, yeah. Yeah, they did they try to keep us in our place out here. But that's over. We're not doing you see you see Black Klansmen?
Trae Holiday 59:36
Yes, yes,
Idris Goodwin 59:37
That's Colorado that's Colorado Springs. That's how it used to be that's that's how it used to be you know, like that's how it used to be. And there's still some there's still some some some people hanging on you know, there's still some some people try to hold on to those days but it's it's just too many of us and we're growing too fast. And it's like you can't you can't stop it man. Yeah, that's Public Enemy made an album out of it they about a call fear of a Blackplanet you know what I mean? That's What's happening What's happening?
Trae Holiday 1:00:04
That's what's happening. And get ready for it, You know what I'm saying the way it is here. And that's why I love that we even got into that defund. I know this is not going to air probably till February or something Linnea
Linnea Ingalls 1:00:18
I think we might move it around and we possibly will air it next week.
Trae Holiday 1:00:21
Oh, great. I mean, honestly, like, that was so it was so spot on. When I heard that from Barack Obama. I was literally just like, come on, bro. Like, can you just say something else? Like use your platform to be like, You know what? I may not like that language. Where the organizers are coming from when they say like the litany of Black death through police hands like, my thing is, is Come on, bro. Can you just at least acknowledge some of the baseline points of this?
Idris Goodwin 1:00:50
Or just you don't have to say anything like yeah, so you don't have to answer a question directly. You just say like, you say, uh, you know, police are a pivotal part of American society. You know, what one of the things that Eric Holder and I were doing in the aftermath of Trayvon
Trae Holiday 1:01:15
Such a thespian, I love it. Absolutely.
Idris Goodwin 1:01:20
All right, y'all.
Trae Holiday 1:01:21
That's exactly what he could have did brother right there?
Idris Goodwin 1:01:23
He could. I mean, yeah, no, I'm gonna see the whole quote. I'm gonna get the whole quote because I'm realizing now that it probably like he's not gonna just say that. Like he didn't just say that and then say next question. ask me about basketball or something.
Trae Holiday 1:01:37
You have such a great impression!
Idris Goodwin 1:01:39
I can only do this though. That's it. I can Oh. Thank you. I actually love Barack Obama. I get the criticism All my friends are like - he nothing but a war criminal. I know all these like super left like, I'm the conservative. I'm gonna be like more moderate, when all my like burn it down and borderline Antifa friends. And so there was like a scathing review in the Chicago Tribune of his of his book. And that was Nate Marshall, who is a former student of mine, from the Chicago days. He's now like a poet. He's put out a bunch of books. And he teaches at Colorado College, where I where I work, and, and so but he's from Chicago from the 100's. And so they asked him to write the book. And, you know, Chicago's are like Chicago, like top five haters. Like they're like, a whole level of like, because they're not totally wrong. They're the kind of haters that actually like they pay attention. So there's a basis for their hate. But there's still haters, and so it was totally like the most Chicago like, like, yeah, I've seen buddy, like I seen buddy, like, his buddy, the two time first Black president, his buddy, my buddy, buddy, buddy, up here, you know, talking whoopty Woo, this and woo woo that and I'm like, come on, man.
Trae Holiday 1:02:53
You know what, one of the things he said that was real prominent for me was if you don't like criticism, don't become a politician. So that's what they're trying to do for me here just to be honest, that you know, the elders are like, Oh, no, we're gonna get you. You know, cuz you got the look, you you got the voice. You got that? Like, people will follow you that and I'm like, hold on, though. Like, is that even where I'm going with it?
Idris Goodwin 1:03:18
Yeah, right
Trae Holiday 1:03:19
like for me. I'm like you I'm like, always probably gonna want to create content. I do watch Black AF on Netflix. I've ever seen that.
Idris Goodwin 1:03:27
No, I know of it. I haven't seen yet.
Trae Holiday 1:03:29
I my parents just showed me one episode. Right. And I didn't know anything about this show. I don't have time really to entertain things. But But Kenya Baras? Who is the creator of Blackish
Idris Goodwin 1:03:42
Oh, I know what you're talking about now
Trae Holiday 1:03:43
All that is basically based on his family right? In this episode that they showed me that episode, I was like, What is this like an hour long, but I think the episodes are like 45 minutes. Anyway, in this episode, he was asked to critique a Black film. and his daughter is like him, they're like very critical Black content creators. You know what I mean? It's not, you know, dead. That's not happening, right? So they go watch this film, and the wife is with the daughter and him. are like, this shit sucks, like, but the whole audience loves it. Oh, my God, Black nuance. And they're doing all this talk about Black experience infused in the film, all this crap or whatever. And the wife is like, Oh my god, it was amazing. And this and the daughter and the dad are like, hell no. So the whole episode is him asking his friends like, should I do this panel because he already agreed to the panel to do the film panel or whatever ever. He's like, I can't do that panel. I can't do it. Because like, there's no way I can't talk good about this movie. It sucked blah, blah. He goes to he gets Tyler Perry number one. And Tyler and he's like, Tyler, you know, like, I can't do like, come on, man. It's up. And I was like, Who gives a fuck like he's like, who cares and you don't think First of all, like, I don't care, I create stuff for the people that that have that lived experience. I don't give a fuck if don't nobody else watch this. I don't care if they don't download it. I don't care about Rotten Tomatoes. I don't care about Oscars Grammys, none of this shit matters to me because that's their shit. And people come and they get and they pay for a ticket or they come to my place or whatever, that's me talking to my people for them, and I am a big time Tyler Perry critic, so when he said this, I'd looked at my parents and I was like, why are you guys showing me this? You knew I needed to see this like, honestly because I do I'm like that shit is trash. Why do you got a whole studio and you're doing nothing but producing Black soap operas? Like what the hell are you doing right? But I love this episode because he gets Issa Ray Ava DuVernay, you know, Lena Dunham? Like two other brothers who all of them that one brother who produce Think Like a Man and all that.
Idris Goodwin 1:05:55
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Trae Holiday 1:05:57
One more brother that I can't
Idris Goodwin 1:05:58
Will Packard
Trae Holiday 1:05:59
Yeah, Yeah, he is. Will Packard, he gets one more, and they're all talking and he's like, you guys, we gotta we gotta like, make sure we're not producing trash. Like, can we just be have a council a Black council that looks at our content that makes sure our shit's not trash, like, all of them are basically like, they start clowning on each other's work or whatever. It's kind of it's a very amazing watching.
Idris Goodwin 1:06:23
I'm gonna watch it, yeah, that sounds amazing
Trae Holiday 1:06:25
Because I mean, literally what they come out with is like, you know what, it doesn't fucking matter. Like, it doesn't matter. Like we're all because they're like your writing is Black way. I tell you, that's how I see myself right when Issa Ray on the Ava DuVernay and Lena Dunham for me. That's like I'm like, I don't even want to create the shit they're creating. But can you move out the way for a sister like me so I can get in there create the stuff I want to create? Because for me it's always gonna go back to like education. Oh, do you want this to education? spiritual connection like connecting back with what did our our ancestors practice? They knew something before there was a Jesus, I'm just trying to get us infused in that. And I'm like, Come on, guys, you know, to say like, Let's wake up here. So that's the kind of stuff I want to create. And I just talking to you today, it just made me remit reminded me of like, why it's so important that all of us are creating that all of us are sharing these different narratives and stories. And I was just inspired by you today so much, because I think that you know, what you're doing is a true inspiration. And it's so needed in this country. So thank you so much.
Idris Goodwin 1:07:28
Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Thank you.
Trae Holiday 1:07:31
Check that episode out.
Idris Goodwin 1:07:32
I will not thank you for that rundown. I was like I cuz I remember like the previous four. And I was like, Yeah, but now that you broke it down like that. I'm like, Oh, I would absolutely enjoy that.
1:07:41
No, cuz now I'm like, Oh my god, they showed me that one episode. And it wasn't the first one. I think it was like episode six or something. But I was like, you guys went to this episode because they know me. And I'm, I'm like his daughter. I'm like, that's just trash, you know. But today, like it's not trash to someone else. Exactly. The fact is, is that it also shares a different perspective and our lived experience. And I so now appreciated all of it. I'm like, I will just, it's still hard for me to watch all things because I'm like,
Idris Goodwin 1:08:09
Not all things
1:08:10
yeah, if it's trash its trash
Idris Goodwin 1:08:12
You still have taste
1:08:12
you definitely want to uplift stuff like Lovecraft country. I mean, there's some amazing, I mean, some amazing productions happening in the Black world. So just thank you for all your work, man. We'll definitely be in touch.
Idris Goodwin 1:08:23
All right, this was a real pleasure. Thank you again. Be well ya'll