Equity Rising S1 : Episode 4
Intersectionality with Oluchi Omeoga; Minneapolis, MN
As the child of Nigerian immigrants who intentionally built community when they settled in Minneapolis, Oluchi Omeoga (they/them) grew up steeped in the importance of connection, heritage, history, and the families that we make for ourselves. Oluchi came to social impact and mutual aid work after coming out as queer, and quickly found that the organizers in their area were Black queer womxn. Together with this community Oluchi helped begin Black Visions Collective in 2016 with an aim to create a “political home” for all Black people around the globe. At the same time, Oluchi also co-founded the Black LGTBTQ+ Migrant Project, or BLMP, which brings Black queer migrants from around the country together to understand the needs of this rich and varied community. Trae and Oluchi talk about intersectionality within the movement, the pervasiveness of policing, the anti SARS movement in Nigeria, and more.
This week’s Chime In features Wole Akinlosuto & Latio Cosmos.
This episode was produced by Julia Drachman & Linnea Ingalls and edited by Josh Berl.
Transcript
Julia T 00:04
You're listening to Equity Rising a podcast from King County Equity Now. I'm one of the producers of the show Julia Trackman. In this episode, you'll hear our host Trae Holliday speaking with Oluchi Omeoga in Minneapolis. Oluchi is a co creator and core team member of Black Visions Collective, a Black led organization working in Minnesota. They also co founded the Black LGBTQ+ migrant project BLMP. In this episode, Trea and Oluchi share their experiences with the Black Lives Matter uprisings this summer, and discuss how intersectionality factors into their work. Please enjoy and thank you for listening.
Trae Holiday 00:48
Hey there, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to equity rising this week. We are talking to Oluchi of the Black visions collective. Thank you so much Oluchi for joining us on equity rising today.
Oluchi Omeoga 01:03
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Trae Holiday 01:05
Absolutely. We're excited because equity rising is really all about listening to the voices of the movement all over the world. So many folks working on equity. So I'm gonna start it right on out with your name, the organization you work for your title and where you are.
Oluchi Omeoga 01:24
Yeah, Hey, my name is Oluchi. I use any pronouns calling in from Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I am a core team member and campaign lead for Black visions in Minnesota.
Trae Holiday 01:36
Minnesota, we're going to be learning a lot about Minnesota today. Thank you so much. And you know, right here on equity rising, we love to really start out with our segment called First things first. So we got to ask you, how are you taking care of yourself? Right?
Oluchi Omeoga 01:51
Well, yeah, I love that question. So it's moving into Scorpio season, which is going to be intense. And it is also retrograde currently, as we're taping this, so really just trying to be with myself and get into a little trouble as possible during a Mercury Retrograde. But yeah, really, really last night, I cooked dinner with my friends we cooked like really dope chicken alfredo, which was really nice, just like being community with each other, driving up to Duluth, which is about two and a half hours north of Minneapolis. And that's where the great lake is in Minnesota. So it's just really nice to be on the Boundary Waters in the fall before it gets too cold. And just like like the trees be nature, yeah. A couple things that I'm doing to heal myself at this time.
Trae Holiday 02:38
you know what Oluchi that sounds real dope, I might have to take some of your tips right on over here, let me tell you definitely need to find more time to take care of myself, you know how it is in this movement. So many of us are doing a lot of things that are like strategic work, and then a lot of reaction work, right, where we're just like, having to respond to certain things. So I am loving to hear you say that that was a really great answer. And I want to ask you, you know, we got to go into your history here, you know, the backstory of Oluchi, you know, help the audience understand how you got to where you are today.
Oluchi Omeoga 03:15
Yeah. So community has always been something that's been really important, and has been a very key value of mine, cemented by my parents. They came they immigrated here in the late 80s, early 90s, from Nigeria after a civil war, which took place in the 60s, and really just wanting a better life for their kids, but they left a lot of their community behind. And so when they got here, they really sought after and found community and like the Nigerian community in Minnesota. So like, since I was a kid, I've always known what my cultural heritage is. And I have had the privilege of doing that. So I started organizing around community, really, when I came out as queer, I thought I lost a community that like, was so important to me for a very long time, which was like, my culture in my ancestry, because of the homophobia that we see in the world, right. And I started community organizing with this new LGBT community. And I was like, wow, this is really awesome. I'm really doing really dope work. And it's furthering the cause of equity and equality. And very quickly, I learned that the LGBT community was very white. And I was like, wow, this is some of my identity. But again, this is not all of my identity. And then around 2013 2014 was really when the movement for Black Lives Black Lives Matter movement, this iteration of Black liberation really started popping off. And I found myself going to all these actions doing all of these things getting activated. And I never really knew the people or the who are the organizations that were putting this together or that were putting the actions together. And in Minneapolis, it was actually a group of like seven to 10 queer trans women. non binary people that were really like, putting together and orchestrating all of these actions that were happening and calling for Black liberation in a very specific way, and doing that, at the intersections that they were at, right? They were all queer, they're all Black, they're all women. And I was like, wow, this is what intersectional organizing can actually look like. I mean, those are actually the people that I organized with till this day. And we started an organization called Black visions in 2016. And it was the purpose of that was, we understood that people want it to be activated and people wanted to do things, and they needed a structure in order to be able to do that. Right, then you have an organization that uses a political home. And that was always the vision for Black visions is like how are we creating a political home for Black, queer and trans folks that are specifically rooted in dismantling all of the oppression all of the systems of oppression that affect us and are many, many, many interest intricacies? Right. So that's really how I got started into organizing. And like, where my politic comes from?
Trae Holiday 06:00
Hmm, wow. I mean, what a great background, honestly, so many layers there. And, you know, I think one of the things that you just mentioned that I can definitely say, you know, I've heard before with other organizers, and this may be just a part of our story is this kind of push and pull, finding the right family to organize with because really, it revolves around a shared sense of not just identity, but of thought. So much of this is about how we see the world, how the world has shaped our understanding of it, our lived experience, how that is infused in it. And so it's great to hear your story. And I think you just really answered a lot of my my next question, but I want to go a little bit more into the Black visions collective let's, let's learn a little bit more about what you guys do. You said you formed it, because you realize that folks needed that organizational body. So are you guys really allowing folks to just kind of come in and find that education and move it forward in terms of organizing their communities?
Oluchi Omeoga 07:03
Yeah, so we've had membership open for about a year now. Um, so not very long. And folks are very, like, very open to join. And we're open to join. Currently, we're like, pausing it because of all of the things that are happening in our communities. Yeah, it's just a space that is unapologetically Black, and we are unapologetically queer, unapologetically trans, and we have a very specific politic, that we are working towards liberation of all Black people. And that means Black people outside of the US, that means queer Black people, that means disabled Black people, that means women, Black women, right? Black trans women. Yeah. And we hope to create a political home is a term that we like to call it, for folks to be able to sharpen their politic with other people who see them in their whole humanity, right. Because I know a lot of there are some organizations where it's like, you have to kind of pick and choose what identity you want to fit in, in that specific moment. And in terms of like, my personal experiences, it was like a lot of the spaces that I was organizing in, in like, immigrant spaces are in Black spaces, we're not holding my queer identity, we're not holding my trans identity, right. Um, and then on the other side, it's like, when I was being held as far as my, my queerness. And my trans ness, like my migrant identity wasn't being shown, or like my Blackness was all the time being invalidated. So what does it actually look like for for us to be an organization that can at least try and like hold people in their specific intersections? And also try to be better, right? Because we are not a perfect, perfect organization? Because perfection doesn't exist? And also, how are we continuing to decolonize ourselves to be able to be the best organization that we can be for the people of Minneapolis and for the specific community that we're organizing?
Trae Holiday 08:50
Yeah, I think that's so smart. Because you know, really being responsive to that community is the best way to go. That's how you continue to build that relationship and deepen the relationship. Right? Maybe it came about from something else, like, Oh, you know, hey, we were all you know, we all grew up together, like us over here for Africa, town, community land trust, a lot of our organizing stems from these relationships, and being a community growing up with people going to the same high schools, you know, our parents knowing each other going to the same churches. So we had this, this already sense of connectivity. And then through the work, we've been able to deepen those relationships, deepen that connectivity, and really allow for the shines of where people want to go like, Oh, you want to focus on food, you want to focus on education, you want to do, you know, social justice reform, you know, what does it really look like but being able to bolster that ideas, all of those ideas collectively, because of that is super important, but you're right, it's about the the push and pull of the relationship and really being responsive to the folks that you're working for. I love hearing that and so, you know, moving a little bit more into your work because you have Black visions collective, but you also have Have the Black LGBTQ and the migrant project. And I just heard you talk about, you know, hey, certain spaces recognizing, you know, hey, you're also a migrant, how do we deal with that? So let's talk a little bit more about that project. Yeah.
Oluchi Omeoga 10:11
So the very funny and also stressful for my life thing is that Black visions collective and Black, the Black, LGBTQ migrant project, or BLMP, I actually started both of them at the same time with two different people, like two different sets of people. So like, I've been in like, structuring mode of like organizing and building organizations for the last four years, like for 80 hours a week. So the Black LGBTQ migrant project actually came out of a grant from God, I'm forgetting Allah is going to be so mad, I forgot the specific grant. But all I got a grant. And it was like, I'm gonna bring together a bunch of Black queer migrants from across America, and just like, bring them together and see what what is needed in this time. And through that first convening of that first gathering, we were really like, this is the first time that there has been a space that has held all of identities in this way. Like this is the first time I'm seeing a group of 50 Black queer migrants from all over from the Caribbean, from South America, from Africa, from Latin America, right? And it was like, we're like, we need to be able to cultivate these spaces, and be able to have a space in movement. That is for Black, queer and trans migrants. So from that there was a steering committee of about 13 folks that came together and were like, how do we actually make what what we just got into an actual organization. And through that came the Black LGBTQ migrant project. So we have been, since September of 2016, have been working towards building an organization that is specifically looking at the intersections of Blackness of LGBTQ identity and of migration, right. And when we say migration, we specifically mean folks who have migrated to the US, or have parents that have migrated to the US, right? So I'm someone who is technically called a first generation American, meaning I was born in America, but my parents migrated here from Nigeria, right? And like, what is that specific intersection look like? And how do we actually talk about migration when we're talking about Black liberation? Because Black people migrate all the time, right? Like Black people migrated from the south to the north, after slavery, Black people migrate from Mexico to America, right? Or to the US, right? And then also Black people are forced to migrate. And what does that look like, right? After the abolition of 18 1885? Or 1865? Right, Black people were forced to migrate, right? That wasn't a chosen thing. They weren't like, Hey, I'm gonna all of a sudden live in this place that I've never lived in. No, they were forced to migrate. The transatlantic slave trade forced Black people to migrate climate changes, forcing Black people to migrate. So the vision of Black of the Black LGBTQ migrant project is how do we actually live in a world without forced forced migration, where LGBTQ plus Black people are thriving and not just surviving? Right? What does that look like? And like? What are the conditions that create that are created through imperialism, through white supremacy, through capitalism through patriarchy, that forces our people to migrate, right, homophobia forces our people to migrate, that is specifically the system of patriarchy, capitalism forces people to migrate because of the climate change that is happening because we're extracting natural resources. So like, all of those things are detriments to our people. So how are we actually doing the work to undo those systems?
Trae Holiday 13:29
Yeah, I you know what, I'm just motivated over here. Oluchi, I'll just tell you that. Because, honestly, I think you're so so right. And when you think about the migration, I really love seeing it from that lens, specifically, because there's so much richness, right there is just that microcosm of American fabric. I mean, it really is literally understanding the nuances and the characteristics, the idealism around a lot of that forced migration specifically, and then how we adjust to all of the migration that's happening in a more organic way based on all these other systems. It's really smart to be thinking about it from that lens. And so I just give you kudos to that one, my friend. Now, he also have you here, as quoted as saying, When trans Black women are free, inherently everyone is free, because all of those systems have to fall down. And I'm going to ask you to expand on that. But I want to say how I'm inspired by that. And I'll say this, when we think about the smallest kind of micro sector of people, and we go into something that is as specific as Black trans women in this country. All I can say is, is that I think that that sector of individuals represents some of the most disparities and atrocities that this country really has to own up to. And so I love your quote there.
Oluchi Omeoga 15:06
Yeah. So, as I was saying, as far as like systems of oppression and how intersectionality how we third wave feminism talks about intersectionality, right? We know, unders, I like to think of it as like the big three of like white supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism, right. And all of those things influence each other. So when we talk about Black trans women, they're affected not just by capitalism, right? And our inherent need to extract resources to profit off of like labor off of bodies off of land off of all of these things, right. But they also are affected by patriarchy. Right? patriarchy tells us that men are more are inherently worth more than women. Right? And also, patriarchy tells us that anything that's not cis anything that's not straight, and I mean, cis by cisgender, meaning that you identify with the gender that you were assigned at birth, anything that is not straight, meaning anything that is queer, anything that is lesbian, gay, anything other than that is inherently bad, right? They are attacked by the system of patriarchy, right. And they're also attacked by the system of white supremacy or anti Blackness. And I'm not saying that other people don't, but as a Black person, you are specifically the center of anti Black racism, right? So meaning that once they are liberated once the system of patriarchy falls, like white women are inherently liberated, right? Asian women are inherently liberated Latin x, women are inherently liberated, non binary folks are liberated, right? Once white supremacy falls like Latin x folks, Asian folks, regardless of their sex, regardless of their gender, are also liberated. So meaning that when Black trans women are liberated, that means that every system that affects them must fall, meaning everyone benefits. So when we're doing our organizing work, when we're censoring people, we must always center Black trans women, because we know that once they are liberated, everyone else is liberated. So if you're doing work on behalf of Black trans women, you're doing work on behalf of Black men, you are doing work on behalf of Asian gay men, right? Because all of those systems affect Black trans women.
Trae Holiday 17:14
So smart. And you know what, I, I'm really enjoying this podcast format, because I'm speaking to some of the most brilliant minds throughout this world. And you're definitely one of them. Oh, lutie, what can we learn from the equity work? That's really happening in Minneapolis right now?
Oluchi Omeoga 17:32
Yeah. So the one thing that I would bring up in this time as we're moving through post heightened moment, is really just like, how are we actually engaging community in a way that doesn't leave them behind? Right, because I think that with heightened emotions, with everything that's happening, it's very easy to move quickly and move with a point that like the you don't actually see what's not what's behind you or what's not behind you. And I also think that the one thing I'm learning is that political education is so necessary, and not just political education, but specifically abolitionist political education. And how we're creating space for folks to vision is so necessary in our movements. One thing that I like to say is that like, my job as an organizer, is not to yell at politicians, like that's a perk. And also, my job as an organizer, is to give people the space to be able to envision a future where they are liberated. Because once they can do that, they have an invested interest in making that future happen. And they also know these are the things that are standing in my way of making that future a reality. Right? So understanding and knowing that, like, I need to be in community talking to community about what what is what is your vision? How do you keep yourself safe, right, and understanding that the ways that we live right now are actually not keeping us safe, and are not keeping us keep our community safe. So how do we shift that in people's mind to be able to do the work that that needs to be done? And another thing that I'm like really learning and what folks can learn from is even like just working community, there's an inherent need to work on yourself, right? Because policing is not just a system that we see the police encompass, right? policing happens in ourselves, too. Like I am conditioned to police people based on the oppression that I have faced, and that also contributes to how I show up in the world. So to do the work of like, actual liberation and abolition, we actually have to do the abolitionists work in and of ourselves, to be able to, like create that future that we want to live in.
Trae Holiday 19:36
Yeah, you know, I think you're so right. And I think that a lot of leadership is about self reflection. You know, it really is it's about always being ready to identify the areas where you can grow, learn, and also learn from those who are technically following your leadership, how you can be in such great connection with them. You become a stronger leader. And I think that you're right in terms of looking at all of this work in this way. Now, now you were just mentioning policing. And I was going to get right to it because you know, so much that we come from different backgrounds, different perspectives around, you know, what it means in our communities with regard to policing. And I really want to ask you about that, because that's something maybe that I can learn from and the in the audience can learn from, because there is a difference. And, and I'll just set it up for me, we dealt with a really strong policy here in the central district of Seattle, when I was growing up called Weed and Seed. And what basically that did was it had groups of police, you know, they were in a lot of the times they had these like gang vans, they would be going through our neighborhoods, they would take photos of young men who were grouped together, whether they were, you know, waiting for a friend in the store, or, you know, going to get bread for their Grandma, or, you know, are headed to football practice, whatever, they would take these photos of these groups of young men, young Black men, and they would then create, they created a database, basically saying, well, these guys are involved in possible gang activity, like these are all possible gang members, and identified them incorrectly as such. And then based on that data, they deployed a whole framework for policing this area to weed those guys out so that they can have room to seed in new investment, new tenant, new residents, you know, let's get new homeowners in here. Let's get folks, some other folks. All right. And so based on that, we experienced a very specific form of policing in our community. And I just want to ask you, you know, what is it that we can all learn here from maybe some of the differences that we're experiencing in our communities with regard to policing?
Oluchi Omeoga 22:00
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because, like, even that, right, and like, we call it like community, like Neighborhood Watch is a form of policing, right? Like you are looking for, and have this idea of what a criminal looks like, and basing your interactions to other people off of those off of those, like, preconceived conceptions. Right. So really, like, what I asked folks is like, what are ways that you're conditioned to automatically police people right? On and like, this can look in many different ways, right? I use the example of, for example, someone who is a victim of sexual assault, right? And the first questions we ask are not like, why did this sexual assault happen? Or Where did it happen? But like, what was this person wearing? Where were they walking? Like, what were they doing all of these things? How many, like how much alcohol did they have? That is a form of policing, you are policing someone of their decisions and of their identities? And like framing guilt based off of like your preconceived notions of what what is what is possible, that is patriarchy. That is like, like, like, literally, that is what we're talking about, right? I'm in policing can look in many different forms of like, why is this person wearing something of like, like, if someone who is perceived as a male is wearing a skirt, it's like you are policing what they're wearing by like, having this preconceived notion of like, this is what this person is supposed to be wearing, or this is what this person is supposed to be doing. Right? And that happens a lot in Black communities, right? of like, oh, there are three young Black men that are standing on a corner. Like, why are they doing that and like then policing their decisions of the of policing their decisions to make those decisions, right? Yeah. So I think my real my real learning is like, how are we assessing and recognizing the ways in which we police others? And then how those things then come up in this institution of policing as well? Because those are like, they're the same thing. But they're different institutions, right? The police are just institutionalized police, right? They, they are just getting paid to make preconceptions of people and their decisions. So like, what we can learn is like, what is the personal transformation that's needed for us to actually move from a place of like, detriment of like, where we're seeing people as criminals, where we're actually looking at what is the best in humanity, and like, coming from a place of hope?
Trae Holiday 24:24
Yeah, yeah. I think that when we when we talk about the kind of larger movement, this is why we're almost back at, you know, 2008 or something with Barack Obama, where it's just like, you know, hope is the big word of the day right now and how how do we infuse hope into the American psyche anyways, can't think about even the global psyche, but just focusing on America, how do we infuse the hope and I think that it you know, it's smart to even say that for me so much Much of what I do is really based on my lived experience. And, you know, it sounds like that's really where you're coming from as well, I think so many of us that are fuel to work in community, it is because we come from a very specific understanding that allows us to then kind of understanding from a broader perspective, right, where not only have we been maybe affected by a very specific form of, you know, maybe it was racism or discrimination or something, you know, for me, it was being gentrified, right, that was just like, Whoa, you know, all of a sudden, my family doesn't matter. Like, what do you mean, we don't have enough money to live where we've always lived, right? Did the concept of it did it? It still doesn't make sense to me, right? And so there's always that something that says, you know, what that gets you going and says, you know, what, I don't care what else is going on in the world, I have to do this work. And you know, this summer, we all I think have experienced a real shift in the American psyche with regard to these uprisings and folks getting out in the street. And here in Seattle, we formed this collective King County equity now, which really, again, based on these relationships of the community, knowing people who have been doing this work on the ground, we've been able to collectively say, look, this is what we need. Here's our list of demands. I know that Black visions collective has really kind of swelled a lot to as you have said, like, this last few months, it's probably been a real whirlwind. And I want to ask, like, what is it that you think we can be learning in terms of our coalition efforts in the style that we're taking to, you know, create this kind of collective voice, and, you know, move forward with regard to our elected officials so that they hear these demands? You know, I want to hear how you guys are doing that. And then, you know, what can we learn from from you all, and move forward?
Oluchi Omeoga 26:59
Yeah, that's a really good question. With our current call, to invest and reinvest in community, we have a really large coalition of different organizations that do different things. And I think that's important in this time, is knowing that, like, our organization is not the only organization that's calling for defunding of Minneapolis police department and in re investment in community. And like, that's necessary, because no one organization is going to be able to do everything that society needs ever
Trae Holiday 27:29
right.
Oluchi Omeoga 27:30
And like, we should never actually think that that's a possibility. And we should never organize in that way, like Black visions is not the only organization that's unapologetically abolitionists, we're also not the only organization that's calling for systemic change. We're also not, we're not the organization that's going to actually create new systems of safety or community safety, right, we can help facilitate the process, we can help, like, engage as community members. And also we're not, we're not going to be the organization that's going to plan a new system of community safety, right? We can call for that we can understand that that is necessary. And also, we need other formations of people that are also doing that work. So one thing that I think folks can learn from is that like, regardless of like, calling for change, and anything like there are lanes that folks need to play, I like to talk about alignment of like, people all going in the same direction, but not taking the same path. So some people are going one way some people are going the other, but we're all moving towards this aligned vision of liberation, right? So there are people that are going to be healers and like doing a lot of healing work, right. There are people that are going to be dismantling systems of oppression, there are people that are going to be envisioning alternatives, right, even when we look at like co ops co ops job is to create a different system, right? And like advocacy organizations are to actually call through the atrocities of this current system. Right. So really, the the the nugget out of that is how are we staying in the lane that we are we are working in and working with other organizations that are doing different things.
Trae Holiday 29:13
Think you're so right about that. We've been having a really great discussion I didn't even go to break yet. So I'm just gonna take a quick second. We are going to go to a quick break you guys stay tuned. We'll be right back with Oluchi from Black visions collective. And now it's time for the Chime In's. In this segment, we bring in voices from our community to see what they have to say.
Wole Akinlosuto 29:38
Well, I'm gonna just introduce myself first. Okay, well, I'm Wole Akinlosuto, I work with Africa town as a volunteer King County equity now and the Africa Now Association. My parents came from Nigeria over over 30 years ago now. And so just seeing the the Nigerian communities perspective on Black issues, this disconnect between our culture from back home, and then also the Black culture here in the US. And in my parents case, they learned the hard way that our equity was tied together. And there was a lot of similarities between what they were fighting for and the life they wanted to live. And the same fights that African Americans had to go through, I think it's very clear that our equity is tied together. And so I think it is up to our generation to, you know, ensure that there's unity between our struggles, and move equity for it for Black people, whether African or African American together. So what are your thoughts Latio?
Latio Cosmos 30:52
Okay, my name is Latio Cosmos and, you know, I've been involved in community work for it, especially with you for a while. And, you know, in regards to immigration, and, you know, equity here in the United States, my experiences is pretty unique, because I moved here with just my siblings and I. And so, you know, I, we never had the opportunity to see, you know, our parents reaction to the reality of the United States and the inequities that, that are faced by Black people, however, like, while they said, You know, I see that extremely clearly. And so, as an immigrant, you know, I'm often tempted to romanticize going back to to Africa, and saying, you know, that things are going to be better. But, you know, when I confront the reality is that I will be fighting the exact same battle over there, you know, the faces may look different, it's, but it's still the same issues and the same roadblocks to either land equity, or you know, employment opportunities, healthcare, food, all the things that are faced by Black people here in the US, are the exact same things that, you know, my parents tried to run from. So at the end of the day, there's a, you know, shared destiny, when fighting for equity. And the way I see it, you know, the only way to truly change things is by uniting hands and saying, you know, you're facing the same thing I'm facing, why are we not figuring out how we can collectively overcome this once and for all so that, you know, the next generation don't have to go through the same issues and same realization that these things are not working for us? So yeah, that's all I got.
Trae Holiday 32:37
Thanks to everybody who joined us for the chime in. And now back to the show. Well, thank you so much for sticking with us. You guys are listening to equity rising, I am your host, Trae Holliday and I am so elated to be speaking with Oluchi - Black visions collective out of Minneapolis. This has been an amazing discussion with you. And I think, honestly, this far in, you know, having no, that was a solid first, first half there of our session, but it was really about aligning is setting so much that I understood so much of this work is in alignment, you know, part of the reason for this entire podcast is because I think we are more strengthened, we are stronger when we understand that there are so many of us who are really doing a lot of this work on the ground. And we also know that it isn't necessarily going to be all picked up by major media, right, like news outlets are not at all of our organizing meetings. They're not there, as we're, you know, collectively getting people's voices heard as we're doing other things to like push demands forward. They're not really they're what they're there for is to kind of capture maybe some of the big moments when we have, you know, 1000s of people, you know, maybe they're there for some of that, or maybe they're there when the for the outcomes, right of all the pressure our work has been putting on whether it's elected officials, city officials, whatever, that our work has been putting on certain power of authority figures to move and make change. And then they want to address right oh, well, you know, you guys have been behind a lot of this work. But I really wanted to check in with you and see how has it been for media coverage. And folks understanding that there is now this collective in Minneapolis, this coalition that's come together that is really asking for and demanding for this reinvestment into community. How has that been in terms of getting that message out on a mass scale with regard to some of the outlets and channels you have available down there?
Oluchi Omeoga 34:43
Yeah. So even in the beginning of this uprising, one of the first things that we did, other than the call to defend was really, we have a lot of National Partnerships. I'm a national organizer. I've been a national organizer for two years, and some other folks on our steering committee has have also been national organizers for many years before this. So one thing that we have been fortunate enough to have is connections with people who are doing work in other places, and we're doing work nationally. And with everything that was happening. Um, it was very easy for us to get that message that very aligned message across. But as things have faded, obviously, like, the the media has faded, but it's really around like doing the work even when the cameras are not on. Right. Right. And like, specifically with Black visions, and with the campaign that we use, reclaim the block. We've been doing this work for since 2018. So in 2018, we came together and called for a defunding of the Minneapolis police department, we won that that campaign, we won $1.1 million in the Minneapolis police department, again, in 2019 came together, we actually lost that campaign. So like, this is not just like, Hey, we found like we we, we decided that we're gonna do this in this time. Because we think people are gonna pay attention. It's like, we've been doing this work, and we continue doing this work. So like, what I say is like, do the work because you want to do the work, don't do the work because of the the media, like the media, unfortunately, will come because that's what the media does. Like they come in times of high visibility to get views like that is the point of the mass media machine. Oh, man also, like I think is investing in media that is for us, by us like podcasts like this, right? So it's like, how are you actually communicating with like, like unicorn Riot back in during the fourth precinct? That was one of our closest comrades. So it's like, what are the connections that you have? What are the relationships that you have to the media outlets that are actually going to tell your story in the way that you want to right, and also everything in organizing comes down to relationships. What are the relationships that you have? So really cultivating the relationships that you that you have, and like not just like relationships, for relationships sake But because we know that this world is interconnected? And that we are all connected to each other? So knowing that, how are we in relationship with each other that holds both of our humanities? And that validates both of our humanities?
Trae Holiday 37:08
Yeah, I can agree with you more on that one. Thank you so much for uplifting that, because I think you're so right, one of the things that I will say there's some you know, we're fortunate up here for me, you know, I produce and host and work with converge media that local, you know, on the ground Community Media, and we have Rainier Avenue radio, that's Community Media, we got South Seattle, Emerald, that is a publication, we got the facts and the medium, they're all publications, but they're Black on all these Black owned channels that are all right here within, you know, the between the central district and south of Seattle. So they're very close together. You know, we're, we're partner neighborhoods, basically communities. And it's a beautiful thing to witness. And that's why I love hearing you say that, because having those connections to your own media outlet, that's one of the greatest things about the internet. And, you know, us being able to get messaging directly to the people, because I think that so much of our work is also galvanizing folks and getting them to understand that it's about the rally, we got to go now, we got to strike while the iron is hot. And you have that. And then you also have this all of this ideas around educating folks, because so much of our community is like, What are y'all What's going on? Like, I never had to deal with this before. I you know, this is a foreign concept to me, like, What are you talking about? So I want to ask you, with regard to the education that it really takes to get a lot of folks up to speed on some of these kind of more nuanced issues, politically charged issues, how are you guys dealing with that in your community?
Oluchi Omeoga 38:41
Yeah, actually, it's kind of really, it was really wild to me, because when people are activated, they're more willing to learn, right? And I saw in the moments of George Floyd, I was I was teaching my parents about abolition, right. Like, I was having very deep discussions with like, my parents, people that I never thought would be able to have those conversations about, like, what is abolition look like? What does it mean? What is the history of it? So we've been doing a lot of very regular, like political education. And we're doing a lot in the first couple months of the uprising around, like, what does it actually look like? What is abolition? I mean, people were very receptive of it. And the one thing that I learned was that like, once folks knew and understood what it looked like, it really gave them the space to be able to vision around like, wow, like, this is really dope, but what what do I actually want? What does safety actually look like to me? And like, actually look at those contradictions of like, where we're at and where we want to be on so it's been very receptive. And people are willing to learn and want to learn about like, what is abolition? What is defunding mean? What is the pathway to liberation, all of these things?
Trae Holiday 39:53
Yeah, I also want to ask you in terms of like a bit of education, a lot of it for us has been about the reallocation of resources, right, you know, a lot of folks talking about, okay, what does it look like to reinvest in communities? What does it look like to actually do some of these demands that are coming from community? And so I want to ask you, we've been framing a lot of stuff for us over here, in regards to like participatory budgeting, right? Like, we need a participatory budgeting process. That's how we're going to reinvest this money. How have you guys been thinking about a lot of that kind of allocation of resources?
Oluchi Omeoga 40:26
Yeah, so same as far as like participatory budgeting is like really? Like, why? Why are the issues that we're having existing? And like, what are the root causes? Right? So it's like, if you cut, like, cut into your stomach, you wouldn't put a bandaid over that, right? It's like you actually have to do some very intense work to be able to find out like, what is the root cause of this issue? Right. So participatory budgeting is a tool that we're really interested in experimenting with on a municipal level of like, what does it actually look like for us, the people who are paying taxes, the people that are living in the community, to be able to have control and have actual input over where the money goes, right. And I think what is needed for participatory budgeting is very deep political engagement, right? and civic engagement, right? Because if if we say, Hey, we're going through this process, and only 10 people actually do the process, then that's not actual participatory budgeting. And that's the same thing with this, like system of policing, right? It's like we to in order to change from a system that is extractive to a system that is regenerative, we actually not like we actually have to have community's input, meaning we have to talk to every single person in the community to see like, what is the process that we want to go through, that actually holds every single community member, and it's possible, it's just going to take a lot of work, it's going to take a lot of time, and people have to be engaged in that process, or else it's not gonna work. So that's one thing that we're really interested in. And also, it's like, when we're talking about reinvesting in community. It's like, What is it? What is the police actually do? They criminalize people for being homeless? Why are we paying people to criminalize people for being homeless, when we can just pay for people to have houses? Right? The solution to houselessness is giving everyone a house, it's not criminalizing people for being houseless. Right. And that can be said for a lot of different things. The reason why people steal is not because they like stealing, it's because they, they think that the only way to be able to like live in this world is to be able to is to steal, right. So instead of having people being criminalized, why don't we just give people livable jobs that they love, right? That they want to do? Right? Why don't we pay people to do the things that they love to do in this life? And then people don't have to, like, go through acts of poverty, crimes of poverty is what I like to call it. Right? And that can be set up for multiple things, right? People always like to say, Well, what if someone is assaulted all of these things, it's like 1% of pieces are actually acted upon, right. And even in Minneapolis, there was this huge, huge thing that came out that 50% of rape cases were thrown away, that they weren't they weren't opened up, they weren't looked into they weren't investigated. 50% were not investigated. So like, what are the police actually doing? So instead of paying hundreds of millions of dollars into the police budget, why aren't we actually using that money to reinvest in community instead?
Trae Holiday 43:27
Yeah, yeah. You know what, and I agree with you, I can't agree with you more on that. Because when we think about all the money that gets put into systems that aren't actually bringing about solutions, it then we then go, well, then why aren't we just actually putting that money into solutions? And I think you're so right, so much of this country actually is built on the very kind of work of policing, right? And it's in, it's not just policing is that supervisor on the job, who's ensuring that all of you don't steal from the cookie jar, right? It's the same. It goes on and on and on. And really, we see it, it's woven in every fabric of our society. And it's something that I'm so glad you uplifted it in that way. Because you're absolutely right, that, that so many things are focused on the symptoms, and not the solutions. And so I love that.
Oluchi Omeoga 44:19
And I think the reason for that, too, is like because the symptoms are being profited off of by by by a small elite, right? And it's like, that's why it's because only 1% of people own 99% of the wealth like this is why and the reason why the the fabric of our society is built that way is so those people can stay in power. And those people can stay wealthy. And like we're fighting within ourselves when we're actually not the enemies of ourselves when it's actually capitalism. That's the enemy and who is actually profiting off of capitalism.
Trae Holiday 44:52
Yes, yes, I'm coming down there. I need to meet you. Oluchi to make this happen. I'm all about everything. You You're saying and to be honest, that's what this podcast is doing for me. I'm meeting so many cool people like yourself, who I'm like this is what I'm talking. I knew we're not the anomalies. Here. We're not the minorities, there are ideals about, you know, equity for all about liberation for all and like really righting the wrongs of this country, starting with Black liberation and Black equity. And understanding that that is not like a small thought. Yeah, I mean, there's, like, so many people across the world understand this. And what you just said, really hits the nail on the head for me, because we're dealing with a system, I just said it to these guys, before you logged on, we're dealing with a system that really does create like those on the hill and those in the valley. And sure, maybe there's some that are in the middle of the hill and valley because they're like, Hey, I make six figures I'm doing all right, like, I'm okay, you know, my kids goes to private school, I'm fine. But the ideas about these disparities, they're real, and they are there for a reason. Because you're right, those people up at the top are definitely profiting from so much that's built in. We talk about the system a lot right now. And I think there's this growing awareness, I'm going to ask you about this growing awareness about, hey, the system isn't broken, is working the way it was designed. And what we're actually describing when you when I heard you give your big three, and I'm like, That's exactly right. I mean, everything that you said, reinforces that. So I know you touched on that a little bit. But I want to dive in specifically about how this system is literally built to create what we're seeing right now. And what you and I are really fighting for on the ground.
Oluchi Omeoga 46:36
Yeah, like I said before, I like to say the big three as, white supremacy, capitalism and patriarchy, and inherently puts humans in a hierarchy, right? So it's like, white men are worth let's say, 100% of a human, and like Black men are worth less, because there are Black, Black women are worth even less, because they're Black. And they're women, Black, gay, women are worth even less, because they are gay, they are Black. And like it puts us in these like in this different hierarchy that says, This body is worth more than this body. And then automatically because of that, we actually live life in that conditioning. So we actually you we actually think that people are worth less because of this thing, people are worth less because they are not working people are less worth less because they are disabled people are worth less, because they do not do not contribute to society in the ways that we think that we we need to contribute to society, right? And it's like, the the question behind all of that is, it's like what tells us that right? What tells us that someone who isn't working isn't worth enough, because they're not contributing to capitalism, it's because someone is not benefiting off of their labor, because someone is not benefiting off of the humanity. Right. So that's the system that we're talking about is like, when we talk about capitalism, capitalism inherently says that the land, the people, the animals, are all worth a certain dollar amount. And to be able to like, to live in life to like succeed in life, is to be able to benefit off of people's people's labor off of the the work of Black people have, with the transatlantic slave trade, the work of the environment, as far as like, unnecessarily cutting down trees, ruining climate, all of these things like, that is what the system of capitalism tells us, right. And the system of white supremacy reinforces that like, because you are a white person, you can actually profit off of this Black person's labor, because they are other than you, they are not worth as much as you are all of these things. And the same thing with patriarchy, telling like women that like your job is to like make babies, your job is to sit at home and do these things. Your job is to do that, and also tells like, inherently trans people that their bodies are not, are not worth anything, that they are invalid all of these things. And when we when we are hearing those things, when we're when we're conditioned in those ways. That's how our body is going to react to other people. And the work that I do is like, how do we actually undo those systems in ourselves so that we can undo them and other people as well?
Trae Holiday 49:08
Oh, my goodness, yes. Oluchi? Absolutely. I just, you know, what, the whole time I've just been like, Yes, I can't agree with you more. But it's also true, because I think that, you know, when you're working in this work, and this is like your philosophy, and then you just hear it from someone else. It's just a life affirming, you know, you're on the right track. And I think that that's really what the strengthening when we talk about solidarity, like doing this work across the nation in a form of solidarity. I'm all about that. So I have to talk to you more about the national organizing, because I need to know what that is and like, how do you do that? How do you get involved? So I'll definitely be following up with you on that. But before we get out of here, I want to just kind of end it here on two different things. You know, let's let's talk about, you know, maybe one of your biggest lessons learned during this kind of swell of the movement and one of your greatest victories. So, you know, you could talk about the background of those two things, you know, kind of where you are today with them. But I really want to talk about biggest lesson learned and biggest victory.
Oluchi Omeoga 50:07
Yeah, my biggest lesson learn is that nothing happens in a microcosm and everything is connected. And I think even more so is that, like I said this before, but like, we really need to do some very deep, like relational organizing with our people. And like, what does that look like? And how, like, how do we actually do that? Like, cuz regardless of the the theories that I have, and like, the vision that I have, My vision is nothing without the vision of other people. And like really inspiring people to be able to see their humanity and see the humanity of every single human being. And that's something that like, I can't teach anyone, I can't teach anyone to, like love other people. And it's like, how do we actually create conditions and create moments and create spaces so that people can see the humanity in every single person, because once that happens, then we can actually move from a place of extraction to a place of regeneration and transformation. Right. And I think my greatest, my greatest victory, honestly is very, like it might be very small, but it's like very impactful to me, is during the uprising and everything that was happening, um one, like my parents reached out to me and like, we had really deep discussive conversations around like, what is abolition in this time, and also, family back home from Nigeria, we're having conversations, and just seeing that, like, the work that's being done here, how it ripples into, like, the work that's being done everywhere was just so impactful to me. And like really invigorated the work that I'm doing of like people that like, in Nigeria, of like, from my village are like talking about the things that are happening, which is like, really, really deep and really, really dope for me. And like real, like, yeah, just just that, just that that essence was just really, really striking.
Trae Holiday 51:53
Oh, my goodness, I love hearing that. And you know what, you're absolutely right. Because I think that a lot of this is, you know, we talk about incremental change, yes. But it really is like one mind after another, you know what I mean? It's person by person. And so much of it is about all of us really understanding that we just need to be loving people, right? That, that that we're all really one, you know, really I go back to that, like we're all one there's like, we're there's not a lot that really makes us different, makes you different makes you have hair there and me have this hair or you have that skin or me have whatever. But when we recognize so much of the similarity amongst all of us, we then begin to, to wash away a lot of the differences. I think really getting this country to a place of reckoning with its past is where we are right now. So I just thank you so much for your work. Is there anything that we did not touch on that you want to make sure we touch on before I let you go?
Oluchi Omeoga 52:52
I will just the one thing that I would bring up that has happened in the last week since we talked before is the work that's happening in Nigeria right now. So folks don't know SARS. I forgot what SARS stands for. I'm gonna look it up real quick, because we're on zoom, the special anti robbery squad of Nigeria, which is basically like a police force that was being deployed to basically criminalize young, queer Nigerians, right. And like, say, like you all are, like, like you because you have tattoos because you have iPhones. Because you do, you do this, you do that, like you are more likely to rob someone. And all of the work and all of the uprising that's happening in Nigeria right now to end SARS. And I think that like, I don't, I don't want to say that the the the uprisings that are happening in America are a causation of that. But they are correlated, right? I mean, they're correlated, just as apartheid was correlated to the civil rights movement, right. And vice versa, of like, the things that are happening here are not just happening in America, policing is a global issue. policing is not just an issue in America. It's not just an issue in the UK. It's an issue that's happening everywhere. And the reason why this uprising is so special in this moment, is because everywhere across the globe, people are realizing that this, this is an issue. That's that's that's also that's happening in our communities as well. And that's what makes this so powerful. And I want folks to like look up what's happening with SARS. BLMP on their Instagram, right now, actually, I'm not probably at the time of recording this, but like when we're recording this is having a live discussion around like what is the SARS movement, what is happening in Nigeria, and that'll be on our igtv. So if you want to go look at that, we're at official, BLMP on Instagram, And um two of our members, Anana and Femi are having a conversation about SARS. So yeah, just just know that the work that's happening now the work that you're doing, that you might be looking at, it's not just happening in America, it's happening all over the globe.
Trae Holiday 54:58
Absolutely. Oluchi, thank you so, so much for giving us your time. I'm so appreciative definitely walking away feeling great about this great interaction and connection to you, my friend stay strong out there in Minneapolis. They definitely need all of your work out there. And I'm just glad that our audience and me myself personally, I was able to be enriched by your lived experience. So thank you so much. I so appreciate you.
Oluchi Omeoga 55:25
Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been a great hour and a half of my life.
55:29
Awesome. You guys have been listening to equity rising.