Equity Rising S2 : Episode 3

equity + art + home with inye wokoma

“It just so happens that the family business is Black liberation,” photographer and filmmaker Inye Wokoma tells Trae in EPISODE THREE of EQUITY RISING. Inye and three other Seattle artists founded Wa Na Wari in 2019, inside a Central District neighborhood home that once belonged to his grandparents. The location, and the generational history, is key to understanding what this important and imaginative arts organization is all about: “reclaiming Black cultural spaces and making a statement about the importance of Black land ownership in gentrified communities.” 

Trae and Inye talk about arts as an engine of change, the specific goals and gifts of Wa Na Wari, and the land reclamation movement through an “open source” lens.  

Learn more about Wa Na Wari and their events and current exhibits. You can also follow them on Facebook and Instagram. 

Visit Inye’s personal art website. 

Seattle musician Bubba Jones provides a beautiful Chime-In this week, reflecting on his lifelong friend’s ability to put an idea into the world, and then actually bring that idea into action.

This episode was produced and edited by Julia Drachman and mastered by Josh Berl. Description was written by Laura Cassidy. Transcribed by Kayla Imrisek.

Transcript

Bubba Jones  00:02

I'm Bubba Jones. I'm a lifelong friend of Inye. We've known each other as long as we can remember. And for as long as I can remember, Inye has been the most exceptional friend I've had. Of course, he co-chairs that with our other best friend, Richard Williams. I find that Inye is incredible at so many levels, because he's effective. And I know a lot of people who can articulate the issues. I know people who can even talk about what solutions might look like. I know very few people who can actually go out, put forth an idea, make it real in the world, and have it make change. And because all of his change is about equity, he's not looking for one up for anyone, what he wants,  is he wants a level playing field for everyone to fully express themselves. And so in essence, he is, you know, one of the greatest advocates for equity that I've ever known.

Inye Wokoma  01:05

All right. Welcome to a another episode of Equity Rising with me, your girl, your host, Trae Holiday, really excited to be bringing on Inye Wokoma of Wa Na Wari for today's episode of Equity Rising. He's a clear equity changemaker, and has been doing this work for many, many years. Thank you so much for joining us, Inya. Thanks for inviting me. It's exciting. I was having conversations with you. Yeah, absolutely. You guys know, we know each other. We're... we're building on that sibling love. So, I appreciate all that you've done out here in the world. And we love, on this podcast, just kind of start off by asking you First Things First: how are you taking care of yourself? You know, one, I take I take, I take regular days off. Right? I'm past the time of grinding 24/7. And it has been necessary different several different points in my life to sort of keep that pace. But also, I was clear when I was in it, that I'm trying to strategize on how to not be in it. So I feel like I'm at a point now where you know, I take regular days off, I listen to my, I listen to my, my spirit and my body. If it says in the middle of the day, go take a nap, I'm going to take a nap. Right? Or if it says just stop and read for you know, for an hour. So you know, I stop from working, I'll stop, take a break. In fact, I was just working. I just finished writing a document. And I just went out not and I watered my garden. So I got a half hour, to go water my garden and hang out with some plants real quick. Before I get back up here, on this digital life. So I think it's just you know, something you got to stay on, you know, every minute of the day. So I agree. You know, I love what you said there too about your past the days of the 24 hour grind. I'm getting there, man, you know? It takes some planning though, you know, you got to plan for it. You know, it's almost like almost like a pre retirement retirement plan. You got to be like, listen, one day, I'm gonna be able to work four days a week. That was my goal. I said one day, I'm be able to work four days a week. And I think I feel like I'm pretty close. Yeah,

TraeAnna Holiday  03:27

there we go. There we go. It's so important, because I think oftentimes, you know, the work that we do really is it's beyond work, right? It's like our life's mission. It's like what we're here to do, and equity work in doing it in all the wide varieties that it gets done, you know, whether it was even known as equity work back in, you know, maybe even when you started, right, so much of it now is really lending itself to this kind of diary of equity folks doing amazing work. And you've been, you know, such an amazing artist photographer, like community advocate, and, you know, you've done so many different things. And so I'm excited to utilize this time frame to kind of show a little bit more about who you are and what it is you do. I want to start from the beginnings because, you know, I know that you've done a lot of different things. What are some of the things that you know, in the beginning of you really being a part of community and bringing your kind of, you know, maybe from Teenage to adult years to say no, this is what I'm going to do I'm going to start really planting seeds in this way in my community.

Inye Wokoma  04:30

Yeah, well, you know, I mean, it goes back to two goes back to my childhood. So I got to credit my my parents and my my grandparents my elders right for bringing me up in a liberation environment, right. So, you know, my mom was was constantly active, you know, and liberation work and my grandparents were constantly active in community institution building and so. I think for me, I don't know, even know if I can pinpoint a starting place. I feel like it was always there. You know, I was, I was interested in art, from the time that I was a kid, you know, I got, I've got all kinds of little relics filming, we're doing this conversation on Zoom. So you can see this, but the audience might not be able to see this. But I found this little pin that I made, like, I made way back in, like kindergarten, as you can see, it's me on a sailboat. Right. So you know, I'm, I'm a nature person. So it's me, but also, I got the red, black and green sails, right. So, you know, way back then, you know, obviously, my parents had had to drill the message on what this was all about. Right. So, um, you know, so I think, you know, for me, it's been a lifelong, it's been a lifelong vocation that I think, you know, you think back in the old days, if he was born into a family of cobblers, chances are, you're gonna be a cobbler. Going to the family business. It just so happens in family businesses, Black liberation. And so that's, that's the work that I'm doing. But you know, but you gotta, I gotta make it my own. Right. So, you know, I am artist through and through and a creative person. So, you know, that's how I approach this, this work. I will say, you know, I started out, like I said, it's hard, you know, because I'm showing you I showed you that, that one drawing, you know, but, you know, I, you know, I took up, I took up filmmaking, you know, when I was at Seattle, Central Community College, took uo photography, I had a desire to do photography since high school, but I didn't actually take it up until I got to college, when I went to Clark Atlanta University, obviously, in Atlanta, Georgia. And, you know, and then from there, it's just been like a really super hyper focused thing, you know, one part, you know, just really wanting to master the craft of the thing that I was deciding to do at the time, that was, you know, photography, first and foremost, with film running, you know, alongside as a close companion, and just being committed to that, right. You know, I believe that work should be meaningful, but work can also be, you know, extremely, you know, beautiful, and just moving on an emotional level, right, you know, so I always wanted to afford myself the ability to do that. And sometimes you just got to master the craft, you got to know how, how a thing works. You know what I'm saying? You can do it in your sleep, you know, you can. It's funny, I got all these weird asides. Like story aside, so when I was at Clark, I had this accounting teacher, a weird, dude, man, he was like a accounting dude. But, you know, but, like, if you just take some dude who probably was like an old, like Kapa or something, and he went into accounting, but he still had that type of swag. But I just remember, it's funny the things you remember, I remember, once I was in accounting class, he's like, Y'all think this accounting stuff is hard? You know, it's like driving, when you first started driving, you know, you got your hands on the wheels, and you're thinking, and the next thing you know, you got your seat leand back and drinking a beer and you got one hand on the wheel. Is that what accounting's like? Like he was making a point that if you if you commit yourself to something, you know, if you commit yourself to the discipline, you can master it no matter how much harder it feels in the beginning, right? So I ascribe to that philosophy in all things, yes.

TraeAnna Holiday  08:33

You know, that's really such an amazing point. I love that you shared that story. Because I think, you know, when we when we think about, Okay, what does that really look like in terms of community work and advocacy and black liberation and equity. And really, you're absolutely right, that we understand that immediately. There are certain characteristics that we can identify pretty quickly, when we have that when we greased our wheels a bit like that, right? And I'm really thankful because over the last few years, for myself, it's been such a concentration of effort, and really that kind of 24 hour around the clock, you know, tireless days, type of effort, that I'm able to be where I am today. And I think that it always plays such a major factor in shaping up, you know, who you are, and how you do the things that you do. Right. And so, I love that example. It's a great example. And really, you know, you have done a lot of different things over the years. Just list out some of the places that you've been able to bring your energy to it before you landed at this effort. You're in right now at Wa Na Wari.

Inye Wokoma  09:44

Oh, yeah. Okay. So, so yeah, well, I don't know, let's see Well, I mentioned you know, I mentioned, I mentioned, you know, growing up with my parents, you know, we back in the day, I say, you know, we saw the Saturday Africa schools, right, which is, was there I'm here at The Atlantic St. Center, I'm on Atlantic by Massachusetts. Right? And, you know, so that, you know, in fact, Jayce.. Jayce, you know, with, you know, Jayce, there's a whole crew of folks who's out here now, who was was a part of that, you know, part of that scene back then, you know what I'm saying? All, you know, and a lot of us went on to, you know, are still doing this community work. Right. But you know, so now go back, you know, I take it, you know, all the way back there, you know, and, and, you know, I and I say this for young people, learning is community input. Right, you know, what I'm saying, learning investing in yourself, investing in your knowledge investing in your brain, investing in the one thing that my dad said, listen, one thing, you know, white folks can never take is your knowledge. Right? You know, investing in that is community input, right? It makes you a community asset. Right. And so, you know, if I were to say, well, you know, what, my earliest input, I think my earliest input was being willing to, you know, to be in those places, where my parents said I needed to be. Right. Right. So I go back there, you know, coming forward. I ran for a student government when I was at Garfield, right, right, I guess I guess I got some, some of the paraphernalia from back then. I was the Black Student BSU, President at Seattle Central Community College. When I went on to go to college at Clark Atlanta University, I wasn't so much involved in student, any kind of student organizing when I was in Atlanta, as much as you know, I invested my time and in my craft, and, and I began to document Black life in Atlanta as a photographer, right. So I have, in fact, it's interesting, as a Seattle native, I have most of my photography, my, my, my community documentation work is of Black life in Atlanta, right. And when I got to Seattle, I started doing some different things. But when I came back to Seattle, you know, I, you know, I've been a teaching artist since I landed, that, you know, used to teach with Arts Core, over here at Garfield Community Center, I taught with class with Nature Consortium, at some of the different community centers where they were doing classes, and I joined the board of nature Consortium, which is arts and nature organization, taught at Mercer Aisa, Mercer Middle School, right. Let's see. So, yeah, so, you know, really, like just, you know, invested in sharing what I have with with young people has been a big part of what I do. Let's see, one of the founding board members for God Green crewed by by the, you know, the legendary Michael Woo, you know, you know, one of the most down Chinese Brothers, you will ever know, in life, like for real, you know, him and Doug Chen, yo, yo, you like, you can't, you can't take this on, you know? So, you know, just old school, you know, old school, Seattle labor activists, right? You know, who were radicalized, you know, in, in, you know, in the School of Black labor activists, right. And, and really took up that mantle and kept pushing that, you know, as their lives went forward. And so, you know, it was really brought in by Michael Woo is really, really did kind of get me back, you know, locked into Seattle organizing in activist circles, as, you know, as an actual organizer, activist, right. You know, I was, I was, you know, working as a media person and an artist, primarily, but this kind of really locked me back into those communities. And so, you know, from there, I was one of the founding board members for the new Langston. And then obviously, you know, one of the cofounders of Wa Na Wari, so, yeah, I guess I'm a, I'm a serial organizer, serial organization builder. You know, so yes, I mean, that's, you know, I would say, just in terms of my, in terms of, you know, the work I've been doing, they brought me to this point, you know, all of all of, you know, all of those organizations, when I was doing work with Got Green, I came in and, and really, you know, helped them focus on you know, what their, what their storytelling and, and communication strategy was and how to use art as a as a frontline tool, you know, to do the work that they were doing. So, you know, obviously, you know, that bounced me over to Langston which is was all about the arts and then Wa Na Wari, which is a is a perfect hybrid of, of arts and, and organizing and activism. You know, of course, we we our catchphrase that Wa Na Wari is the house that fights this placement with art. Right? So it's not just the art spaces that we're we're land justice, and land equity organization as much as we are an art space.

TraeAnna Holiday  14:43

Wow. I mean, just listing out how your energy has been used and wielded and how you've been so integral in so many things is phenomenal. Inye like, you know, I felt like I'm one of those people that gets to Like benefit from your brilliance, right? When we have our discussions and I'm like, Man, that's right, I'm taking that back into the team, you know, there's so much that you really bring to this body of work around, you know, Black liberation, equity, just educating people, and getting them to see themselves as a part of it. Because I think that that's also really where we are right now, when we talk about the time, you know, us going through a pandemic, you know, us trying to now go through this vaccination process and people getting healed and being well, and, you know, shutting down the whole country and, you know, reopening it. So, you know, unique in its own way, right. And I think so much of it is that there was a real awakening of certain folks that were like, you know, yeah, the way our country is built just isn't right, right. And we have to start looking at it from a different lens. And you've been able to have that lens for years, for decades, clearly, before many other folks in this country began to wake up. How has that been for you in terms of educating not just young people, but your peers on, you know, some of the ills in, you know, of this country? And what it looks like for us to really have Black liberation? Like, what are some of the things that really stick out to you, as you've had those kinds of discussions with people along the years?

Inye Wokoma  16:20

Oh, that's interesting question, because it has changed, like, I've seen it change, like radically, like a pendulum. I mean, amongst I will say, amongst my peer group, you know, over the course of my lifetime, and if I were to go all the way back, you know, like, for instance, I showed this little pin, I made the artwork of myself portrait of me on a sailboat with the Black liberation sail, right. And so, what gives you, which gives you a sense of the kinds of things that were ever present in my consciousness and subconsciousness. But that was not true for a lot of Black folks in the community. You know, back in the day, even though we're coming out of, you know, Black power and the Black consciousness movements of the 60s and 70s. I was born in 1969, you know, so, you know, sort of coming of age in my own as a as a youth, you know, in the mid 70s, you know, and then really kind of coming as an adolescent in the early 80s, you would not really know from the conversations today, that the things that we take for granted as foundational concepts of Black liberation thought today were really marginalize, right? You know, they were really kind of sequestered to folks who were in, you know, either Black radical and Pan Africanist or Black Marxist, organizing and activist circles and a lot of other folks in the community just thought it was some crazy, yes, right. Whatever, you know, I can tell you some stories, you know, like, Okay, here's a story. This is a storytime, here's the story. Listen, cuz, you know, I gave you a sense of what my mom, my dad's Nigerian, my mother actually radicalized my father, right, who came from Nigeria, right? And got his political education here in the United States, you know, and I like sometimes, like to parallel history with the story of Fela, who , who had a similar radicalization, you know, as a as an artist when he came from Nigeria, and began to play in the United States in the 60s, right. So, so there's the, you know, there's a history of, of Black radical thought in America, radicalizing continental Africans who come come to this country, but that thought, you know, was was largely sequestered. And you had other folks who were, you know, who were, who were, you know, as we were saying, just regular Black folks, you know, go to church on Sunday, you know, members of the Deacon Deaconess board, you know, what I'm saying? Doing a thing, right, and we're not in very much adherence to civil rights philosophies. Right. And, and, and sort of Black sort of general Black progress, you know, which in a lot of ways was, you know, kind of threaded the line between, you know, like assimilation, right, and sort of Black empowerment, but kind of still in a, you know, in a Black western model, like, we want to be like the Huxtables type of situation, right. You know, there was a lot of, you know, derision and ridicule. When, you know, when you showed up, you know, I show up on picture day, you know, to school with my, you know, with my African booboos and my big, you know, listen, I had an afro, but I my hair has always been super kinky, right. So I can have like a, I can have like a five inch afro, and it wasn't fluffy and angelic, it was like, dense, like, like, it was like, whoo, you know, so, but I will show up and, you know, and I, you know, you know, I had a Black name, African name and big lips and Africa, African clothes and a nappy fro and, you know, I was, you know, I was fodder for all kinds of jokes, right. So, so I mean, that that gives you a sense of what it was like in the 70s and even moving into the 80s. But I used to have a A lot of conversations in high school and folks were really interested. And there was a beginning to be a shift slightly in the 80s. You know, interestingly enough, you know, the emergence of reggae music, you know, in the late 70s and early 80s, you know, and reggae. You know, reggae is a hardcore liberation genre, right. But reggae is so seductive, and just the way that it pulls you in that people don't even know that they're dancing, to Black liberation, right. And so you'd be like, Listen, you need to listen to the lyrics, though, I can't really understand the lyrics, okay, well, you're gonna have to stop and slow it down, right? And figure it out, you know, and, but that, that kind of facilitated, you know, a little bit more room, you know, for me to actually have conversations that felt like they made sense, you know, for people that were willing to listen. But, you know, honestly, when, you know, it really, you know, the whole thing kind of blew up, when I when PE drops, Public Enemy drops, right, you know, hip hop was, was going strong, and in hip hop was progressively starting to, you know, kind of radicalize people, in the sense that, you know, it was giving, you know, a more of a hard edge voice to the culture, right? Even if it was just, you know, what I'm saying, you know, brothers coming out, out of out of New York, you know, just talking about life as it is, it was, you know, it was, it was the kind of voice in the culture, that was not about making love, you know, what I'm saying, it wasn't about making love, it wasn't about, you know, what I'm saying, you know, all these other things that people would kind of push off to the side, it was about life as it is, and so, but when PE dropped, you know, they just brought the message, like, and then after that, they opened up the door for everybody else who was sort of waiting in the wings, and kind of was like, can we talk about this? Can we not talk about it, you know, what I'm saying? So, I would say, you know, it really is shifted, and, and that shifted the conversation across the board, right. And so when you come into the 90s, you know, you actually start to have a much broader conversation based on not just what was coming through hip hop, but hip hop, you know, really helped to popularize, you know, the work that a lot of Black academics and intellectuals, you know, have been doing for generations, right, bringing a lot of that work to the forefront, you know, talking going back to books by George G. M. James, Chancellor Williams, you know, what I'm saying, Mary, Mary, Baraka, you know, I mean, just all these people, you know, what I'm saying over to Shaka, I could run the list, you know, what I'm saying, you know, you know, bringing all of that intellectual output, you know, and making it something that people wanted to engage with, right, you know, and so, in the 90s, you know, the conversations, you know, in the popular spectrum, you know, just begin to really broaden, you know, and people were really interested in Black liberation, a lot of that had to do with, you know, just the popular idea of Blackness, you know, being repackaged, ironically mentioned, the Huxtables. But, you know, between the Cosby Show, and A Different World, you know, that opened up a whole new concept of what it meant to be Black for folks that were not a part of, sort of, you know, the Southern, you know, sort of, or a southern and sort of east coast, you know, social environments, right? The whole idea of the HBCUs, you know, a lot of us had not even really, we kind of had heard of certain schools, we know about Howard we knew about Tuskegee, we know about Grambling but to really kind of embrace, like the whole meta idea of HBCU, as a network of Black colleges, places where Black people could go and be Black and learn, you know, what I'm saying? It changed, changes change the whole dynamic. So you have a lot of, I would say, there was a bunch of folks from the class of 86, 87, 88, 89, who left Seattle's like, and were like - we're out, we out - you know, what I'm about to go see what's happening on the other side of the mountains. Right, you know, so, so I feel like, you know, just talking about what has been, like, you know, when I look at the conversations now, that are happening, you know, in an activist circles, and, you know, in these ideas, even just the just the way that we throw around the phrase, white supremacy, right now, was not a phrase that Black people could willfully utter, in polite company, you know, what I'm saying back then, unless she was just one of them crazy, you know, radical umms. Right, you know, but now, it's a part of the the common, you know, discussion about what's happening, you know, in the world. So I see a shift where, you know, and I say this a lot nowadays, you know, it's interesting, because all these conversations that we're having now, in a very foundational, way, the premise is based on Black radical thought, yeah, is based on Black radical thought the stuff that was marginalized and isolated to the edges of the Black community and Black movements, you know, has now taken center stage and it's informing the way that everybody talks about the way that the world is operating today. And I think it's important to acknowledge that,

TraeAnna Holiday  24:50

you know, I agree, I mean, just my gosh, your answers are phenomenal, engaging. I agree. 100% I think this is why every time like in every iteration of what progress looks like, you have to actually really press for it. Right? So I didn't grow up talking about equity, right? It just wasn't, it was like, well, equality was what, you know, we understood it to be back then. And now we understand equity is something very different where we're talking about No, it's not using me as just an equal, but I need to have the equity that that you have been able to be afforded. Right. And so that means ownership. That means really understanding that now you get a smaller slice of pie, because it's not the pie get split 5050 No. Equity means how much of the pie do I need to make up for all of the pies, I did not eat? Right, I did not get to be served to me. That is really where we're at at this point. And I think that I love, you know, some folks are like well, you know, is that the radical side, I just think it's now the real side, like you're saying, it's become so much more normalized, because people like yourself, and others continue to press people before you are pressing in the ways that they could, and it does take, you know, time, I remember you and I were speaking once and you said, you know, look, well, you know, we we're going to continue to fight for reparations, even if we never see it in our lifetime, right. But it's, it's the fact that what we're doing now sets a precedent for what is going to look like in the future and for where people can experience, you know, all of this in kind of the future. So it doesn't matter if I don't see it right now, in my lifetime, I'm still going to press. So so much of it is that and I love that you shaped it up based in, you know, hip hop theory. And like folks, being able to understand that that was such a integral piece to all of this, in terms of awakening our conscious about Wait a minute, like, Hey, this is what I can be doing. I need to collectively be doing stuff instead of just trying to be a part of whatever this system and society is. Right. So it's it's really interesting. You know, I think about this often Inye way that when we think about what we're setting the foundation for right now, and what it really means, I want to ask you this, because I'm experiencing something in this paradigm that I feel like didn't really exist before. And that's a term that I'm calling kind of the Awakeners. It's right, when we think about equity work isn't just on the backs of Black people, right? When we're thinking about Black liberation. So much of this is about the entire world, waking up to the fact that you know how Blackness is treated globally, needs to change, it needs to stop. And I just want to ask you how your perspective of I'm kind of deeming them, the Awakener is right, folks, we'll call them allies back in the day, you know, whatever, if they're, if they're non Black people that are saying, No, I'm saying the same thing. You're saying because I understand the importance of all of us waking up to these truths, and learning from them, and educating our peers, our family members or neighbors, whoever, on these things, you know, breaking down that monotony of white supremacy, and of anti Blackness. So it's like this holistic approach, how are you kind of seeing that unfold in some of the work that you do? And some of the discussions you're having now?

Inye Wokoma  28:27

Yeah. So you know, it's interesting. So I talked about, I was recruited by Michael Woo to help to found Got Green is an actual organization, right? So we did that work. And then Michael Wo, who was already you know, had had a lifetime of organizing and activist work was really interested in creating a leadership pipeline right out the gate. He's like, Listen, I'm starting this organization. I'm old. I'm not trying to, you know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to take it to the next level. Right. And so we, you know, he brought him within a few years, Jill Mangaliman, you know, who's Filipino? Right, and really took Jill under his wings to be the next Edi and Jill was a young organizer. Right. And when I say young organizer, I don't think Jill had a real organizing background much before Got Green, you know, but what Michael recognized was that Jill, had an acuity for community work and a passion. Right. So And I bring that up, because I actually want to focus on Jill right, I'm like, okay, when I think about allies, you know, I think about Jill, in the sense that, you know, Got Green is focused on environmental justice, right. And so the definition of that has been expanding, right and evolving over the past few years. But Jill is also very much involved in, in liberation work that's connected to our homeland in the Philippines. Right, you know, so we know there's a real strong anti Black sentiment in many of the colonial nations around the world right, you know, white folk seated there. ideologies wherever they landed, it was all about a hierarchy of races, you know, and a lot of times about a hierarchy of skintones. Right. And so the furthest away you were from, from white, you know, the lower, you were on the social and economic and political hierarchy. Right. And so I think about Jill challenging the status quo in the Philippines, you know, the way that Jill has brought Got Green into this larger conversation about this global justice transition movement, which is about disrupting our entire conceptual framework of white supremacy, right, starting with indigenous communities, right, and working outward, not starting with, you know, pointing our finger and yelling at white folks, but starting with ourselves and working outwards. And, you know, at the heart of that work, you know, is challenging the notion of white supremacy. And at the heart of white supremacy, at the very heart of white supremacy, at the very absolute heart of white supremacy is anti Blackness, right? White supremacy is built, the entire framework is found its foundation is built around anti Blackness, right. You know, and I, you know, obviously, I think there are a lot of reasons why I say, obviously, it might not be so obvious for some people, you know, we also have to understand that African people actually, you know, throughout history have colonized and ruled various parts of Europe, you know, what I'm saying, and so, we talked about the psychological impacts of white folks, you know, you know, having a backlash, and what that looks like, in the modern world, you know, you have to understand that there's a long history of global interactions, you know, but also, you know, when you look at how vehemently white folks, you know, work to deconstruct the notion of Black humanity, you know, in every place that they go around the world, every single place, right. So, you know, there's this whole conversation around, you know, deconstructing white supremacy, there are a lot of folks in indigenous communities around the world, and I use indigenous indigeneity as a, as a global, you know, framework for people who are rooted in a place where their ancestors have been, you know, for millennia, right. They're people who are challenging that, challenging that and working to deconstruct, you know, those those frameworks. And so I think, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, really, for me, it's important to see how it works on a global basis, right, because that's how we have to come at this issue, right? The issues that we're confronting here in Seattle, the issues we're confronting in Washington State, the issues that we're confronting in, in America, in the United States of America are all things that as Black people, and for those of us, you know, those other folks who are here, you know, we can be an ally ship to figure out how to do and be in conversation around those things. But ultimately, the power that resides here in America is supported by the American empire in the global hegemony, right. And so you have to disrupt all of those centers of power around the world, you know, in order to make the center much more malleable for us to do the work that we need to do here. Right. So I think, you know, for me, it's important when people, typically folks who are here in the United States, they recognize what the game is about, and they start looking at where the root is in their communities. Right? You know, it's the same thing I say, well, white folks, I'm like, Listen, you know, I appreciate you being an ally. But honestly, as an ally, I don't need to see your face. In fact, I need for not to see your face, I need you to go back to, you know, sit down in the rooms with your crazy cousins, right? Stay there actually stay there. Like, actually, that's the way the work actually is. I know, you don't want to be there. If I was you, I probably wouldn't want to be there either. But that's not, that's not the world we're living in, you know what I'm saying? Listen, as a Black person, I don't get time out for racism. So then neither should you. Right? You know, you don't get to get time out from racism, by leaving in Iowa and coming to Seattle and then hanging out in the South. Right? You know, I'm like, come on, really, not actually not doing us any favors by doing that. So, I think it's, it is interesting, when you see movements, you know, such as, you know, Asians for anti, you know, against anti Blackness, you know, I think those those movements, and those vocal and visible movements are important. I think, you know, what's even more important, is how do how do those movements take root in Hong Kong? Or Shanghai? You know, what I'm saying? Or Beijing, you know, or Tokyo, right? You know, what I'm saying, you know, how do they take root in New Delhi, you know, how do they take root in all these other places around the world? Because these are people that come to America, and they're either going to support the status quo, or they're going to not support the status in America you really there isn't actually no you it's a binary situation. You're either down with the game or you're pushing up against the game that's really not set up to be do one thing or the other, right to do anything in between. So So It's important that when people land here, that they have a framework for how this country is constructed in, you know, and how these things operate. So, I don't know, I think, you know, that's kind of a roundabout way of really talking about, you know, and, you know, Ally ship and anti Blackness, but I, you know, I tend to take a, you know, a global view of these things, cuz, cuz that's where it matters for me.

TraeAnna Holiday  35:22

Oh, my gosh, snaps and snaps all day, because it matters for me, in that regard. So much our first season of Equity Rising was literally speaking to people across the globe, right, it was like, you know, we had a lot of folks that were from the US, but we made sure we made some real connections outside of the US to see how people are, you know, thinking about equity, building equity, in theirs in their communities right outside of the US, and you're just right about it that, you know, I say it all the time. If you allow bigotry and racism to persist in your presence, then you're actually a part of the issue. Right? And, and when we have more people waking up to the fact that wait a minute, like, I don't just get to call Oh, that's just my grandma. She's always been that way. Or that's just Uncle Joe, you know, I know, he's gonna be this way. You know, when we go to Thanksgiving, kids don't really listen to him, you know, right. Instead of being like, you know, what, Uncle Joe, let me show you a couple things that are really gonna, you know, transform the way that you see this, let me actually bring you in to some of the knowledge that I gained. You know, I went to some some events, I learned some things I want to share that with you, I think so much of it is that and really a lot of this work happens in the new ones, right? It happens in those conversations. It happens in, you know, the water cooler chats in the corporate sector, right. It's like, you know, if you're still, you know, laughing at the jokes that are sent to you, when there have racial bias, and then you're part of the issue, right? Instead of being like, Guys, this, this really isn't funny or isn't cool, no more, right? You have to be able to be that that person that is willing to embrace, I think the uncomfortability of it all, because it isn't comfortable. And I love how you said that, like I don't get to choose. So you shouldn't either. I just think that it's I agree 100%. I think this is laying the foundation, we bid. There's been so much foundation laid before us. As Dr. Mims always says to me, Look, you've been paid for she goes TraAnna, you've been paid for So you don't I mean, so at this point, like you Yeah, you get to go off the rails a little bit, you're gonna if they consider it radical 50 years ago, the way that we're approaching certain things, I can tell you this much an elder, such as Dr. Mims in her 90s is saying, I love how you guys are doing it, right? I love that you're doing it unapologetically that you're like, look, we're going to just take over the street, we're just going to take over the part, we're just gonna be out here protesting, and we're just gonna have to be out here in the streets. And she's like, Oh, my God. Brilliant, you know, right. But I also think, too, that something that really strikes me is hearing from our elders. And I want to ask you, because I know you're just plugged in, you were talking about coming from this amazing family of Black liberation. And as you do your work at Wa Na Wari, you know, you guys have been very intentional about what it is you're doing, who you're doing it for, and why it's so important. What are some of the things that you really want the audience to know about the work of Wa Na Wari, outside of Inye Wokoma because it's now becoming such an amazing community staple, and really providing opportunities for Black people to learn about the importance of home ownership, but also the blending of creativity in our spaces and creating cultural hubs.

Inye Wokoma  38:52

Yeah, so you know, I will say, the thing I, so we, you know, we talked about Wa Na Wari is the house of faces, placements are I may have mentioned that earlier, I think it's important. You know, when people come to party with us, when they come to see art, you know, what I'm saying when they come to make art, I think it's important for people to know that they're actively involved in CO creating a land reclamation move. Right, you know, like, you're actively, like, Wa Na Wari? Wa Na Wari is a open source project. When I say that, I'm saying that, yeah, we we set up the space, but the source code is open. So what that means is that, you know, and I don't know if people really understand this, but, you know, I will say up to 60, maybe 80% of the stuff that we do is initiated by community. Right, you know, what I'm saying, you know, we have an amazing, you know, curator and facilitator in you know, in the form of Elisheba Johnson, you know, in Solma, you know, heirs, right. You know, but in a lot of ways, you know, they are facilitating community vision, right. And that for me, that's important for people to know, right, because it's It's kind of just a way of saying you know in the words of this, I'm taking away back to old school 1980s Hip Hop, T L Rock, it's yours, right? So, um, but you know, but I think that's, for me, that's the most important thing. And inside of that, you know, there's a myriad of things that we're doing from our Black spatial histories Institute, which trains folks to go out into the community and collect, archive and present oral histories of the Black experience in Seattle, to our case, 21 to central area, cultural ecosystem, you know, which we, you know, have been taking our, you know, our, our sweet and dedicated time, you know, to build an organizing and data collection, infrastructure, we just finished seven folks to be, you know, bonafide data collection, folks in the community, who will be conducting our surveys, and leading communicate community members, you know, specifically Black homeowners and cultural workers, gradually into this idea of being land use experts, and advocates for changing land use policies were along, you know, alongside one another, at the same time, being able to reimagine, you know, Black homes, as as dynamic places where activism, cultural activities, cooking dinner, and making love, you know, happens all under the same roof. Right? So, you know, I mean, we're looking at re reframing, you know, a lot of our assumptions about how we exist in the world outside of the framework of white supremacy, right. You know, I mean, the notion that I'm operate off of is the notion that, you know, that Black folks intrinsically us, you know, in our communities, when we were together physically, you know, I have the benefit of a dual perspective, you know, you know, when I, when I, you know, go to visit, you know, my, my father's, you know, side of the family, you know, what I'm saying and witness, you know, how society is constructed there, there are some very strong parallels, you know, and the ways that spaces are used the way that, that cities and towns are, you know, especially the older, like, the older towns, you know, are laid out, do you know, what I'm saying, you know, laid out according to family groups, you know, what I'm saying family groups that, that operate as mini corporations, economic engines, and so that, that, you know, that relationships, you can enter into a relationship as an economic enterprise, and that that relationship can evolve into a filial, familial, you know, relationship over the course of generations. Right. And so, and then the way that the space is, is, is organized, you know, reflects that, you know, so, for me, I'm like, Yeah, we, you know, it's all open source, you know, we can tap into all of this, you know, what I'm saying, and reimagine our situation right here, right now, and start to activate new things. I think Wa Na Wari for us is, is an embodiment, which is, of course, the reason why we chose to give it a Kalabari name, you know, southern Nigerian name, you know, as a way of evoking, you know, what I'm saying, that way of doing things in West Africa, and recognizing that it is the way that, you know, we have been doing it here, that has not been suppressed in our spirit, even after 500 years of living under white supremacy, you know, we still bring these these essences out into the world. So, yeah.

TraeAnna Holiday  43:26

Oh, my gosh, absolutely. You know, this is, this is why I, I, you know, I tell the crew for Equity Rising, how much I enjoy this product, right, I do a lot of different production things. And I really enjoy hearing from folks that have such amazing, wide ranging perspectives of what this looks like. And I think capturing this in a podcast way really allows for the audience to hear the clarity of you know, where you're coming from, specifically. And Wa Na Wari is just been doing amazing things I love hearing you say that so much of it is coming from such a community centric approach. Like these are folks in the community realizing this is a cultural hub, even that connection of it being open source, and being like this is you know, open source code like you know, hey, we're not Apple, you know,

Inye Wokoma  44:23

We've got no lock energy, we've got the DMRs or DRM on your on your stuff, listen, if you want to replicate it, go for it.

TraeAnna Holiday  44:32

I love thinking about it like that, because I think so much of what has held us back when I think about equity work and I think about it from a historical perspective, is exactly what we talked about in Black organizing all the time, which is you know, I got to hold on to this. This was my baby this is you know, I can't get pass the torch because I still got to be able to receive the credit for whenever it blows up from whenever it makes sense for whenever it's acceptable by, you know, whatever you consider the dominant pieces of society. And that that ideology is really I think it has been detrimental to us, right. And when I think about equity right now, we need to be able to allow all of that to be, you know, swept away, because we really need clarity of thought, as we move forward, and really bring about the opportunities for all of us to experience what actual equity is, right? And so I love that I think we need more and more of the Wa Na Wari's of the world, right, that are understanding, you know, the need and filling a void in community to be like, nah, this is what we're focusing on. And you guys have some amazing programs and projects. You guys were just doing like pop ups the over the weekend showcasing businesses? Or do some of the things you guys have maybe coming up in the pipeline that people can, can can learn from experience, what are some of the things you guys

Inye Wokoma  46:00

know you got embarrassed because we got some stuff going on? I can't get this is real talk. I can't keep track track. And some days, man. I don't know what's going on, Right, and then I'll be late. But you know what, that's actually a good thing. That means that the work is doing what it needs to do is not relying on me to be at the center of nothing, right? I'm saying it's like, oh, oh, you got to walk out my house and what can I do? You know, so? Well, you know, so So, interestingly enough, yes, we had, we have a weekend vendors market that was initiated. In fact, it was initiated by my mother, right? You know, it was her idea cuz she, you know, she had been dealing in antiques and collectibles, collectibles for the past 20 years. And, and obviously COVID has shut a lot of that down. And, you know, so she was, you know, really looking for an opportunity really, honestly, for her, she is trying to get rid of inventory, just some stuff. She honestly, sometimes she brings, she sets it up, she's like, if I sell fine. If I don't sell it, I'm gonna try to give it away before but that, you know, which is I listen, I just want people to have, you know, some stuff is really good. I want people to have it right. But then it's expanded to include, you know, obviously other vendors and other people. And it's I think that's the the nature of what we're doing. Over here is people say I have an idea. Sure. And then other people I like that idea. And then you know, and then they grow so so that's going on, I think I think homies Sunday services may be starting up again, we have a new exhibit that is opening the first of the month. So a whole new round of artists have a new installation, backyard installation that will be under construction sometime by late August. So the backyard will be transformed into like an artistic sort of seating presentation area. So it'd be like a sort of an outdoor installation art, but with a lot of utility. We've got our ongoing artists and residency programs happening in the house right now. We have Amber Flame, who's our current artists in residence and her her residency will be ending at the end of the month, and then on Natasha Marin will be starting her residency. So those those are some of the things you know, we have, you know, folks who are always eager to be here at Wa Na Wari that sort of pop up on the schedule, you know, whenever they have the ability, Blu Meadows, who's a Black and Indigenous blues, rock musician, and loves performing at Wa Na Wari and is always looking for opportunity. He was here on Juneteenth doing a set and will always show up, you know, whenever you know, he has a window of opportunity to be here. And then you know, we you know, you just kind of have to watch our calendar you know, I'm saying you know, Elisheba was always planning you know, really you know, provocative and interesting artists talks and lectures and and digital sort of digital you know art performances you know, things that I would never conceive of you know COVID didn't slow her down like one bit I'm serious I'm like yeah, I looked up and she was like, Oh we got you know and it was like as all these people from all over the countries I got an artist from Harlem I got artists from Portland, I got an artist from here I got this person that person people doing lectures and art performances all on zoom right you know, all using the zoom platform, you know, so you can expect to just to see a continuation of you know, the innovation of digital spaces you know, coming through Wa Na Wari and really building our creative network into a national international community of Black creative thinkers so I you know, I mean honestly, you know, if I was to go back, you know, to your first question how to take care of myself, you know, I mean, Wa Na Wari is a lot of work, but honestly Wa Na Wari feeds my soul I'ma be honest with you, you know, as much work as it is. I don't think that I could have survived living in the CD. You know, with all the changes if it wasn't for I Wa Na Wari, you know what I'm saying, you know, I think, you know, I'm doing the doing the work, you know, even though it is in response to the displacement of our community, you know what I'm saying, doing the work that that invites our community back is, is the thing that is given me life. So,

TraeAnna Holiday  50:17

Oh my gosh, ashe, ashe. I am over here, just like beaming right now, because that is just a beautiful way of putting it. And if folks want to, you know, learn more, where do they go? Where's the website?

Inye Wokoma  50:33

Yeah, so wanawari.org Is our website. @WaNaWariSeattle is our Instagram? And Wa Na Wari is that on Facebook. We're super easy to find. Yeah, so you know, just ping us on, you know, on our on any of our social platforms. Or, you know, check out our website, all the good stuff is there. Yep. Oh, and Wa Na Wari Seattle on YouTube. So if you go to YouTube, if you go to our YouTube channel, or one of our YouTube channel, you will actually see an archive of all the amazing things that Alicia programmed over the past year using a digital platform. So don't miss out on that. Don't miss out on the opportunity to catch up with all the stuff I know y'all missed.

TraeAnna Holiday  51:14

Oh, my goodness, this has been so phenomenal. To sit down virtually with you like this and really dive in to who you are. Your history, how important your family has been to the legacy of the central district. I mean, you have just been really doing the work out here, my friend and I am so elated to be in community with you. You're an amazing equity Changemaker regardless, right, it is Black liberation. I saw it on the pin from a young boy. He was all about and clearly you have continued that and I get the pleasure of working with your daughter who is amazing, Teme Wokoma, takes on the lessons that you have instilled in her very beautifully. Just thank you for your time with us today. On Equity rising you are you know, such an inspiration to me, you got to know that and I was holding back the tears my friend this whole time because everything you're saying is just fire and it was lighting me up today. Thank you so so much.

Inye Wokoma  52:14

thank you. I just want to say listen, you're not like the youth to me, but you're a little bit younger than me. But you know, honestly, I'm loving. I'm loving, watching young people do do all the amazing things these days. You know, I'm loving the work that's happening with KCEN and I'm loving what's going on was popping with Converge Media. You know what I'm saying? Listen, even with all the strife in the beef in the wif in the back of the book that beat the white Whap there, you know, I can name some names, you know where to face the popping off in the streets. But but you know, everybody's trying to do a thing. You know what I'm saying? We just got to love each other through it all. You know what I'm saying? And so I just want to say the feeling's mutual. You know what I'm saying? You know, young people give me life, right? And so I'm, you know, and teach me how to be a better artist. So I'm yearning to learn how to be a better artist by watching young people, create art, and young people create.

TraeAnna Holiday  53:07

Thank you, thank you so much, that means the world coming from you. Because I know that you mean it, you've always shown up as such a genuine person and I am very grateful, very grateful that our audience gets the opportunity to learn more about Inye Wokoma, Wa Na Wari, and what it really means to be an equity Changemaker right here. And you know, in the heart of the Central District, which really was such an amazing thriving Black community, and is continuing to be an amazing thriving Black community by the work of folks like yourself Inye, thank you again for being on this show today. And you guys check out wanawari.org Clearly there is so much going on. If you're looking for amazing opportunities to be involved and engaged in art and what it looks like to blend art and activism. You can definitely step up to the plate at Wa Na Wari and amazing things now going on as things are opening up. You guys are having some amazing pop ups. So there's plenty of ways to connect with Wa Na Wari. Thank you again Inye, we'll see you on the next man. You're gonna have to do this again.

Inye Wokoma  54:13

Anytime, much love, all right.