Equity Rising S1 : Episode 8
Empowering Cannabis Leadership with Ernest Toney; Denver, CO
“If you look at the history of cannabis prohibition, you see cannabis being used as a tool of oppression and the communities being targeted are the Black and brown communities.” Starting from this place, BIPOCANN founder and longtime cannabis expert Ernest Toney leads strategy, education, and business operations for Black, Indigenous, and People of Color in the legal cannabis industry. In this episode, Ernest talks to Trae about how he works interpersonally within his network to help newcomers and up-and-comers succeed—thereby taking back that imbalance of power. Using a business-to-business approach, and leveraging new legislation as well as any social equity programs that exist, Ernest believes that successful enterprise and strategic partnerships are key to increasing visibility, representation, and equity.
This week’s Chime In features Elijah Lewis.
This episode was produced by Lili Gu, Linnea Ingalls & Julia Drachman and edited by Josh Berl.
Transcript
Lili Gu 0:04
How do we fight 100 years of cannabis use as a tool for oppression? Hi, my name is Lily Gu. And I'm a producer for Equity Rising, the podcast that examines how we're shaping history and tells the story of the current racial justice movement. In this episode, our host, Trae connects with Ernest Toney, the founder of BIPOCANN, a Denver business, that's the subverts the history of cannabis prohibition by connecting BIPOC folks to the industry. Trae and Ernest dive into the community impact of the war on drugs, the disparities that Black and brown business owners face in today's legal industry, and the future of cannabis.
TraeAnna Holiday 0:39
Today, on Equity Rising, we have Ernest Toney of BIPOCANN. You are doing some amazing work, I want to introduce you to our audience, and I want you to be able to tell us where you're doing this work, what it is... we're going to get all into this. Ernest Toney. So happy to have you with us.
Ernest Toney 0:57
Hey, thank you. I'm happy to be here.
TraeAnna Holiday 0:59
Yeah, absolutely. So we love starting this off with our segment, we call first things first, where we really just have to ask you, how are you taking care of yourself?
Ernest Toney 1:10
You know, I'm doing the best that I can. This has been a hard year for everybody. But for me, you know, ever since I decided to kick off this venture, you know, that feeling of liberation has actually been quite nice. I've been able to have a little bit more freedom and control over, you know, my day to day husband, my time. And most recently, you know, I've just been trying to do my part by like eating right, you know, getting the gym and through all the conversations that I'm having with folks in this industry, that's also keeping me motivated and inspired. So I'm good.
TraeAnna Holiday 1:40
That's good. That's good. That's, that's what it's all about. So let's give this great background for the audience. Let's tell the folks who you are, what it is you do, what movement you're involved in right now.
Ernest Toney 1:51
Yeah, certainly. So I'm the founder of a company called BIPOCANN, B-I-P-O-C-A-N-N, and BIPOCANN represents connecting BIPOC professionals and business owners to the cannabis industry. So I got into this work. I'll start by saying that, about two years ago, I started working within the legal cannabis industry at Marijuana Business Daily, which is the industry's leading business news resource, and also the industry's largest business to business conference and expo producer. So during my tenure there was in charge of global marketing and partnerships, and was primarily like focusing on increasing their readership, event registration, and also playing a pretty important role in the marketing efforts to get our first business conferences that talk about the educational opportunities within the cannabis space, you know, kicked off in Canada, Europe and Latin America. So after two years there, I transition into, you know, doing my own thing, because I saw, as I'm sure we'll talk about, you know, there's just like a lack of representation or lack of black owned BIPOC-owned representation within the cannabis industry. And, you know, I just sort of felt like the timing was right for me to use, like my connections, insights and real motivation to try to make an impact by helping others be a part of this industry. So by back end, is trying to do that work trying to bring new BIPOC professionals and business owners to the cannabis space, and also working with existing cannabis businesses and brands, by connecting them to folks of color who are trying to take advantage of the economic opportunities within cannabis.
TraeAnna Holiday 3:25
Wow, well, it's so interesting to me, because, you know, this is, again, and I've said this before on this podcast, but it's so true when we think about the term equity, you know, every sector probably at this country can use a bit more equity work, right, when so a cannabis industry is not, you know, remissed from that, and I think that what you're just describing is showcases something that we've been talking a lot about up here in Seattle. And I want to ask you, you know, in terms of some of the inspiration you took to really inspire you to push into this, what were some of the big disparities you were releasing that made you understand that there was a real need for BIPOCANN?
Ernest Toney 4:02
Well, you know, when I started working at MJ biz daily, like I, I've always been somebody that's, you know, about information and learning, you know, so I wanted to figure out, hey, how does everything work, and I have that opportunity, especially with doing so much work with these new emerging markets, you know, and abroad, by sort of seeing how industry really comes together, you know, in a lot of these new markets, you'll have the legislators and the regulators, the science, the research, the business community, you know, you have everybody at the table, having these conversations, trying to figure out how they can not only help, you know, improve the lives of their patients and their health, but also how to create, you know, economic opportunities for their state or localities. So, you know, I just by having, you know, the access to be at the center of a lot of those conversations, you know, you start to take a look around and you realize that representation is is lacking, you know, especially for, you know, folks of color. So I think once you know, this year kicked off and we started seeing so much happening in the US you know amidst social unrest you know I think a lot of protesting the cannabis industry responded by having a lot of you know organizations and business leaders saying that yes you know we care about Black lives yes like this is important yes we need to diversify what we're doing and you know for me it was great to see that but then time passes and you're trying to figure out okay well what are you going to do to actually like fix this and I think for me like once the awareness started become more mainstream and you started seeing more people talk about how this is important i just wanted to figure out hey like well this follow through okay how are we going to tackle this and that's when I started to sort of see like some real educational gaps within the industry some cultural gaps within the industry and you know I sort of felt like hey i could have made change by staying where I was and try to you know fight that fight internally or to go elsewhere but you know I'm somebody that has strong networks and connections and insight and I really have this belief that I want to help you know make things right and I ultimately decided that one way to walk the walk was to literally be that inspiration like do what we need like we don't have enough Black business owners in cannabis so I'm going to become one.
TraeAnna Holiday 4:02
Yeah absolutely that's how you do it that's how you do the work right by becoming a part of the industry I think that's so so important and up here for us I think one of the catalysts around identifying some of the disparities particularly in the cannabis industry with regard to communities how our communities have been policed with regard to marijuana charges in the past and up here in seattle in the central district we have a real iconic corner that you know really did have so many people you know we're selling drugs on that corner they got incarcerated you know some of them probably still walked up to this day and yet we have this thriving cannabis shop that's now there you know reaping all the benefits of so much blood that the light was sown in the streets beforehand like historically speaking and I want to ask you about the climate of that like as we talk about how it is actually shaped in our communities how is Denver doing that down there where you are do you guys have any of those kind of similarities?
Ernest Toney 7:15
Yeah you know I think of course I think if you take a look at a lot of black and brown communities and you look at the history of cannabis prohibition you know 100 years of prohibition you sort of see over a period of time the effects of cannabis being used as a tool for oppression you know it's systemic you know you sort of see how it gets accelerated when the war on drugs comes about and the communities that are getting targeted are those black and brown communities so you know you have ripple effects that sort of continue you know you have policing measures and best practices that end up being developed based on you know like historical approaches to how you handle enforcement and policing of cannabis use so I think you're gonna see some of those same type of disparities that you described as happening up in King County in most metropolitan areas within the us especially those ones where there are you know legal cannabis markets in place. So I moved out here in 2011 so I was here a full year before Colorado amendment 64 hit the ballot and you know I was lucky to be here during a time when you know sort of experience in the run up and then here in January of 2014 when we became the first adult use market to have cannabis so you know for me I was more interested in understanding hey what are the economic opportunities for this and you know as time passes and I think you start seeing more you know young Black men brothers and sisters getting targeted rested in sometimes it's straight up killed and you know sort of having cannabis marijuana being used as that reason to stop them in the first place you know you start to think differently about okay well what's really you know happening here so me being at the center of you noticed industry like that was also something that i was aware of to just sort of seeing how some of the same Black and brown communities that have you know families communities that have been negatively affected by the War on Drugs are the same ones that are being excluded from the profit centers of the you know the corporate world and within the space so you're asking about like what Denver is doing Denver has taken a multi pronged approach to ensuring that communities that have been disproportionately impacted by the War on Drugs can benefit from legalization so I know that there's been some social equity programs some work down here that they've used a lot of different tactics such as marijuana tax revenue to support low and moderate income neighborhoods vacating low level marijuana convictions Governor Polis just pardon I don't know the exact number but you know that's like another step in the right direction to you know clear people of low level charges there's other initiatives that the city is doing the cannabis equity projects that help with distribution for new licenses like hospitality and delivery and then they're you know working with folks on the ground probably makers. Yeah, I'm gonna try to do my part to also be a part of those conversations to figure out how we can remove barriers to obtaining licenses and to bring people in.
TraeAnna Holiday 10:09
You know, I think that you're so right. And I'll say that it's great that Denver is taking a multi pronged approach. I think what we're experiencing here in Seattle is that there isn't enough city pushing equity in the cannabis industry, there's not enough kind of movement necessarily coming from a legislative place, right? where it's like, Look, we can look at these things, we understand that, you know, historically, there's been some disparities, let us look at this industry as a ways to make amends for some of that. And it sounds like you guys have done that. It's really exciting because listening to you, and also Raeven, one of our first guests on equity rising here, who was talking about cannabis equity in Oakland. And so it was great to hear some of the programs that they had going on around equity in the cannabis industry, particularly, like what you just said, with specific neighborhoods that were historically you know, targeted for marijuana charges, and really ensuring that there's certain folks who grew up in those neighborhoods have access to these opportunities to own cannabis shops of their own. So I'm really inspired up here in Seattle, because I think we have a lot to learn in terms of how to take a multi pronged approach when it comes to utilizing a new industry to close some disparity gaps. And so it's just great to hear that I'm really inspired by it for you, it's clear, you created BIPOCANN as its separate entity to kind of attack equity, from your own perspective, and you said it earlier, you know, you could have done it from the inside. But you realize that you need to really take this approach, how has it been for you, you know, with your strong network, and with your sense of understanding in this industry? How's it been for you so far with BIPOCANN?
Ernest Toney 11:50
You know, so far, so good, I think anytime you're trying to get like a new venture off the ground, there's like so much that you have to navigate just to get it to the point where you can sort of go to market and try to say, Hey, here's what I stand for, here's the branding, here's the messaging, here's what I'm trying to accomplish. You know, so I did the legwork, you know, I was definitely an official to, you know, make some connections and have, you know, that insider knowledge of sort of how the industry functions and how it works. So, you know, I had privileged, you know, I was at a position where I think I was able to sort of get a head start in the race, like, you know, so to speak. So I did my soft launch September 4. And, you know, now we are about what, seven weeks in, I started doing, you know, real active marketing at the beginning of October. But you know, even before I started doing the brand specific marketing, I was already able to get some support, you know, in terms of getting some businesses on board, as you know, partners or getting them to become paid members. Also, you know, getting some folks who were just really excited about what I was doing, and they're really receptive, I think you have a lot of folks who are in this industry that are trying to figure out, hey, how can you tackle this the right way. And I don't necessarily think any one person or any one business has the right way to do it. But I think you need to have a variety of tactics, you know, to solve, like, a very deep rooted problem that has, you know, afflicted communities for 100 years. I will say this, you know, at this point, it is, I've had very positive reception. And, you know, I know where I'm going, I've been able to build some partners, I've been fortunate to get, you know, some coverage by other like podcasts and media entities and, you know, being invited to speak so that I can sort of be somebody that can share the message about like, what my brand is trying to accomplish, but also raise more attention to and visibility to the importance of equity within the space.
TraeAnna Holiday 13:45
Yeah, I think that's awesome. And I think it does really take a varied approach, right? We need all of these folks doing different work in different sectors to really bring about equity overall. And so I'm really happy to hear so much about your work, honestly, are they something like, this is what I'm talking about? I think I'm really inspired. Because sometimes when we don't see organizational solutions in front of us, we have to create them. And that's exactly what you did here with BIPOCANN and honestly, I think that that presents itself with another example of how people can kind of tackle a lot that we're seeing here in the movement. And so I have to move it into that direction. I got to go there, you know, right, because of this whole movement is happening and erupting all around us. Clearly, so much of our work is a part of that, you know, when you're talking about doing anything really around equity in a real serious way. I think that that's so much of what the movement is calling for. How do you feel that your work really is either representative of this movement inspired by it connected to it. Tell us more about that?
Ernest Toney 14:48
Yeah, sure. I mean, I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier, but yeah, these systems like this social injustice, social inequities, you know, they've been pervasive in our country. You know, since its inception, and then you know if you look at the past 100 years and even like more recently like post Civil Rights Act in the 60s we've been making like incremental steps you know in the right direction to you know sort of rectify some of like the historical problems and like just messages that were created they didn't have to and you know so this movement touches every aspect of life you know for a lot of folks and i think regardless of your industry these are conversations that should be hey you know okay how can you be more inclusive how can you create opportunities how can you make sure that you're being more accessible and you know it's not only like the right thing to do but you know from a business standpoint i think it makes no financial sense to you know like if you were trying to regardless of the product that you're trying to sell you know if you are really interested in having like a diverse like consumer or customer base or supply chain then you know it's important to have you know that same type of like cultural education and diversity within your your business setting now if you transition that directly into the cannabis space you probably hear a lot of criticisms within cannabis about social equity programs and how none of them have really gotten it right but I think it's important to also recognize that you have the states that have these programs in place some of them have been you know exploited and used to predatory practices but I think like moving forward you can look back at some of the programs and sort of realize okay well where were the mistakes that were made how can you make improvements so that we can get this right in the future and this also speaks to I was my approach of tackling this social equity from a stance that's not directly political base you know sometimes policy takes time you know and it's important to still be vocal to protest to put pressure on lobbyists and regulators and legislators to try to get them to make that change but you also have to find other ways to you know tackle that problem so I think a lot of times if you were to talk specifically about what does social equity look like in cannabis you might hear people say well it's all about dispensary ownership how many licenses can you get well while that's important that we want to have representation I also think it's important to realize that this is an industry and you don't have to be a dispensary owner or operator to be in it for to support it so by taking you know approach to bring people that have professional skills in other areas that can support any type of industry or folks who just want to get in you know like working with partners to create like that educational pipeline with hbcus so you know graduates can go from go from you know college to entry in this there's so many different ways that you can approach it and that's I know sort of deviated from what you asked me but that's that's how I'm that's how I'm trying to like tackle this problem.
TraeAnna Holiday 17:49
No I think you answered it head on because I think that again you know you saw and recognize a particular solution that you could bring to a problem and said i'm going to go about it this way and I think that that's what so much of this movement is really calling on so many of us americans to do is to not only be thinking about what what can I do in this situation but taking your stake back in this country - Omari Salsbury my partner on Converge Media says that all the time that you know hey folks need to take their state back in this country and I think that that's really what we're seeing and it is going to take a varied approach it does mean that we have to think about it from so many different perspectives and also that it is really wrecked and really kind of the foundation for so much industry we have in this country that yet again it means we need to then go back to that industry look at it all over again dismantle rebuild how do we do this and so I think that what you're doing definitely sounds like that for the cannabis industry.
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TraeAnna Holiday 18:50
Now it's time for the Chime In. In this segment we bring in voices from our community to see what they have to say.
Elijah Lewis 18:59
My name is Elijah Lewis and my best and worst experience with the cannabis industry i would have to say my best experience with the cannabis industry is just seeing how cbd oil treatment has helped my uncle who is suffering with really bad scoliosis and back pain not being able to sleep and being in excruciating pain to the point where, you know, he started screaming during the night and whatnot and to where now he's able to walk on his own he's able to be able to sit down and has very little pain and so that is one of the really big healing properties that i've seen that cannabis can can do in real life one of my worst experiences with the cannabis industry is just seeing how it is affected a lot of my roles and a lot of people who are in our community who had sold it for money before it was legalized into the now where it is legalized and a lot of them have felonies or some of them are still in jail for, you know, smaller cannabis crimes for either distribution of cannabis or possession of cannabis. And I see that now that it is legalized, 49 of the 50 cannabis dispensaries are all white owned. Even if you do have if you have any felony with cannabis that or anything in the past, then you can't own a dispensary. So I see that that is directly, you know, affecting people who might have sold cannabis in the past from being able to get into this industry. And so that is one of the worst things that I've seen is just our white counterparts being able to profit off of the same things that they would criminalize us for.
TraeAnna Holiday 20:41
And now back to the show.
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TraeAnna Holiday 20:45
Now you're talking about, you know, BIPOCANN kind of being that place that hub where folks can come in and kind of enter into the industry. Walk us through that if I am a person in Denver, I want to get into the cannabis industry, I come to BIPOCANN, how is it that you help me?
Ernest Toney 21:03
So I think in that example, obviously, like education is important, you know. So I always try to take like a consultative approach with anyone who joins whether it's like an individual professional, someone that wants to just learn more, which we call the canna-curious, or, or you know, a business that's already established or wants to have more of a stake, like within this multi billion dollar market. So you end up you know, joining BIPOCANN, and by back end, I've created something that's called the BIPOC cannabis business network. So I treat that sort of as like a membership organization, like a chamber of commerce. So when you join, I want to talk to you, you know, I want to figure out, Okay, well, what are your interests? What are your goals? What are you hoping to accomplish? And, you know, if you're saying, Well, I'm not sure I just want to learn about this industry. And I want to, you know, figure out how it works and what the opportunities are. Okay, cool. Well, I have folks that are directly in my network, and people who I, you know, just through my past work, I can connect you to who provide education, whether that's through a virtual or a physical conference, when you know, in post post COVID world, or whether it's through, you know, some type of educational platform where you have training modules from experts within the industry. And because the industry is so varied, there's so many different ways that you could, so somebody might join in, they want to become a dispensary owner, or they're really interested in cultivating, or maybe there's somebody that has a background in law, and they're trying to figure out, hey, what are the legal opportunities? And how can I best fit in. So just by benefit of me being in this industry, and knowing how it functions and having worked with so many niche base and you know, specialized organizations, I can point you to where you want to go,
TraeAnna Holiday 22:46
Its awesome. I mean, it really is. And so, is this something the way that you have it set up? Is this something someone comes in and they pay a fee for this? Or is it that they can sign up for specific services? How does it work on the financial side?
Ernest Toney 22:59
Probably the easiest way is go to the website bipocann.com. And there is a place where you'll see like an a drop down. This is the BIPOC cannabis business network. So it talks about the different ways that you can join, and it talks about the different, you know, tears and options and benefits that come with it. So the simplest way is for an individual, right now I have it set up where it's very accessible. It's like $50 a year, pretty soon when that promotion ends, it'll double and it'll be $100 a year, which is still like good value. But you can join, I get notified. And then I have this private social network, this online app that you'll get invited to. And then you can directly interact with other members. So you can chat freely and make the business connections there. Or there's set topic areas. So like we might be talking about, hey, here's some upcoming events, or here's BIPOCANN in the news, or some of our network members in the news, or here are topics that talk about social equity best practices, or here's topics about basically the the legal makeup of this industry, like where you can do business and things like that. So it's pretty simple. Of course, you can join as an individual, but you might want to join as a business because if you are trying to get your brand in front of some of these individuals, then I have a place on the website where I'm essentially putting your logo promoting you communicating what it is that you're doing. So not only do the businesses get that ability to take advantage of like the promotional and the visibility efforts that I'm doing, but they also are sort of putting themselves out there. So you know, if you are a company that wants to have like a diversified workforce, well, now we can see that you align with our beliefs and that you support BIPOCANN and now you have that opportunity to connect directly with people who could be an asset to your business.
TraeAnna Holiday 24:45
Well, it sounds like you've really created an amazing network really, I mean of like folks in network of information, obviously, ways to enter the industry. A lot of great work and a lot of hard work, honestly artists and sounds like because you have to really have your hands In a lot of different parts to really be able to pull the resources together that are going to be beneficial to, you know, folks who are looking to make this their career make this their business. And so, you know, what are some of the greatest challenges? We'll do both we'll do you know, your greatest challenges and your greatest successes. Let's hear about both?
Ernest Toney 25:18
Well, I think maybe before I talk about that, one of the things that I think is also important to know about this network is usually when someone joins, and because we have that consultative approach, it becomes really easy to sort of figure out and sort of play matchmaker and figure out, Okay, how can I best support you. So a good example is this, like if somebody wants to figure out how to become more connected and educated, like I'm working with this one organization, black canon business magazine that's putting on the black cannabis business conference for the first time. So you know, me aligning with partners like that is like another way where I can say, all right, not only am I helping you get educated within this space, but we're also uplifting other black owned businesses who are trying to, you know, do the exact same thing. And I have a similar arrangement with a company that's focusing on like the recruitment platform. So that's one way that we're able to offer like an abundance of services without it all relying on me. And that, I think, is also important, because it speaks to the idea of building community, like recognizing that you have people with, you know, specialized talents, and backgrounds and experiences, and if you can attack equity and justice collaboratively by getting people, you know, who are specialists in their areas to get behind, like a single mission. So that's a challenge. Because, you know, you're trying to figure out, Okay, how do you get, you know, folks to buy into that vision? And then you're also trying to figure out, Okay, well, how can you make sure that you're providing them value? How can you make sure that you're, you know, making a very clear message about what it is that you're trying to do? Because I don't want it to come across as, hey, look, I'm just a promoter, I need people to buy into the vision. So I think that's a challenge. And I think it's an opportunity, but I also feel like, like that will continue to be a challenge. Because I think right now, you might have some organizations that are within the space that are saying, Okay, well, I need you to prove it. I already know an organization that like might support, you know, professional development, or entrepreneurship for minorities has been around longer, why should I go, you know, with something that is brand new in startup mode. So it's going to require a little bit of, you know, belief, and some patience. So I think that's probably the biggest challenge, like getting the message out and getting enough backers, enough people to join, so that, you know, you can thrive from an operational standpoint. But some of the successes I would say is that, you know, I've already been able to get like a groundswell of people that have been all about this idea, and have already joined. And I've already made some of those introductions and connections and, you know, brought people who join my network, and then made introductions, and now they're best friends, and they've created business partners for people they didn't know a month ago. So I'm already sort of seeing, like this vision, play out. Some other successes, I would say is just the sheer like receptive Miss. and responsiveness to the idea has been cool. I feel like I've been giving several opportunities to have a platform to share what it is that I'm trying to accomplish. So you know, if that means that the more opportunities I have to raise visibility about you know, inequity and different ways to attack it, and the more opportunities that I have to showcase like, you know, what the company is doing? Like, I think that's a success in itself, too.
TraeAnna Holiday 28:36
Absolutely. I agree with you. And you really got into something that I wanted to get into, because you talked a lot about this kind of where like this network, this coalition really like that you have to have, you know, folks that you're providing value for they're providing value, you know, building it off of these relationships that you had before in your career, and really caring for your character, right, that maybe speaks to them beginning, you know, in the beginning to say, you know, what, yeah, I don't mind doing business with this guy. No, I'm, you know, I trust them. You know, it's really built on that kind of relational value. And it really speaks to how we've been building right here in Seattle. And with the King County equity now coalition, it represents exactly what you just described, where it's like, Look, you know, based on these relationships we have already in community, maybe some of us grew up together, we knew each other, whatever. It's our network. But we're also so many of us are doing so much work on the ground with regard to equity, and different sectors. So we all just got together to say, yeah, we need to all come together and say, Look, here's some demands. Here's what we need. We know what the low hanging fruit is. Let's get that low hanging fruit. Let's begin to climb that tree and get you know, fruit that's closer and closer to the top. But I love hearing you know, your approach because that was actually my next question was about the strength of your support down there in Denver. What is that like for you? And how does it actually represent you know the community but I think you answered it wholeheartedly.
Ernest Toney 30:03
Yeah yeah well I can say about the strength of support in Denver I mean right now it's not like the majority of the members of my network are based in denver like I'm here like locally and I understand and I've lived through you know seeing like the market boom the tourist boom and sort of insane the gentrification that comes with that because you know cannabis was in high demand right but you know I have been working with folks all across the us and you know I have some in Canada and Latin America and the Caribbean but I'm also trying to be very strategic and where I'm spending my attention in like the communities that I'm trying to support so one of the things that I am working towards doing is having up to five organizations that and in most cases it'll be a nonprofit organization or foundation but organizations that support that are you know combating inequities or that supports social justice advocacy or entrepreneurship and financial literacy for you know BIPOC and other marginalized groups so it doesn't have to be here in Denver you know as you were mentioning the importance of having that network and having all of these folks that you know are tackling equity from different areas and sort of coming together to you know to form King County Equity Now it's funny because I got introduced to your organization through an entirely different contact you know it was somebody that I had done some equity work with at a niche sport you know I used to work in Ultimate Frisbee and when I worked at the national governing body we spent five years focusing on how to increase the sports visibility and a huge part of that was changing our structure and making sure that all of our decisions were being made through equitable and inclusive lenses so you know I had before I even got into cannabis I was lucky to do some work that was all about trying to figure out how we can make you know an entirely disparate world accessible and now starting to see that come full circle and I'm actually looking for new communities and new folks who may not even be in cannabis but are also like minded the way that you know your organization came to me to do that exact same thing because you need you need those kindred spirits and that fire to make change.
TraeAnna Holiday 32:13
Yeah you know and to be honest and it's that's really the premise of Equity Rising right it's like not only do we get to uplift the work happening globally in terms of equity in pretty much all sectors that need it but also because what we're doing is now i know ernest tony down there in denver and I know exactly what you're working on you know me up here in seattle washington trade holiday right and you know what I'm working on now and the connectivity about this equity work globally is what is so exciting to me because i think so often so much work that is revolved around social justice balancing the scales equity advocacy you know activism all of these kinds of things a lot of that stuff is like oh it's done over here in this community or over here in this small pocket or you know oh they got a great group down there in california and oh over here but when you understand the power of the collectivism of all of that energy of all of that work what you just said kindred spirits right really coming from a perspective that is for so many of us I'm sure it was so personalized at some point in our lives that now iIdon't care what I do I will always work in this kind of equity work right because I understand that we need so much in order to balance the scales so I will have to talk more about how we can make sure that folks up here in seattle are connected to BIPOCANN because i think that what you're doing is brilliant work and is definitely needed up here in the Pacific Northwest you know we as king county equity now cannabis is a another sector and we have a whole group that's working on cannabis equity up here but I think it feels very bleak for me when I see these reports when iIunderstand a lot of the work that they are pulling together is that we have a lot to learn up here in terms of balancing the scales and so anything that we can glean from all of your work I'm sure it will be so beneficial to us up here man.
Ernest Toney 34:15
Well likewise I mean I can't tell you how many times iIve been on your website in the past couple of weeks and I actually have some folks I need to connect you to I was talking to some people yesterday and I was like okay well y'all need to you need to talk to King County Equity Now because you know you're aligned in a lot of different ways so you know hopefully you know when I feel comfortable with getting back on a plane I can make it up there and you know we can hang out and that way too.
TraeAnna Holiday 34:43
Absolutely you know the great thing too I was gonna share this with my brother my brother is visiting me from Denver he's obviously originally from here but he and his girl lived down there and have been for the last couple of years and so I was telling him i was like I'm gonna speak to somebody from down there and we'll learn a little bit more about - cuz he's always like, just come and visit. So you know, if I ever get down there, Ernest, I'll make sure I touch base with you for sure, we'll have to make it official. But before we get out of here, I really want to give you some space. If there's anything we haven't covered, this has been such a great discussion. And I really appreciate hearing more about, you know, what you're really tackling down there. Again, so in alignment with what we have going up here, but anything we haven't shared, and also, how can folks support BIPOCANN? How can they be connected? Let's make sure they get that info too.
Ernest Toney 35:30
Yeah, you know, I'm sure we can talk more and probably talk about this all day. But yeah, you know, I feel like you know, we we had a really substantive conversation. So I don't really think there's anything extra that I want to add at the moment about what we we spoke on, I, of course, do want to stay in touch, because I'm only going to continue to have, you know, folks that I can, you know, connect you and you know, your community and your network to who are in the Pacific Northwest. So I think it'd be good allies and partners or supporters for you, I know that we're going to, you know, continue to stay in touch, because there's some things I'd like to do to promote your work as well. But in terms of folks who are interested in learning more about BIPOC, Han are also interested in supporting it, yes, you can, again, visit the website, it's B-I-P-O-C-A-N-N dot com. You can also find me on LinkedIn, just Ernest L. Tony. And it might take a moment, if you connect with me on LinkedIn for me to reply, but I, you know, I will get back to you for sure. I am looking for, you know, individuals who are interested in joining this network, you know, obviously, like, with me getting it off the ground, just like you know, you also trying to get your operation off the ground, you know, how important it is to have those folks who can, you know, provide like a little bit of resources to help you. So, you know, appreciate any type of support that I can get. Likewise, if there are any businesses or any folks who have some, you know, skill sets that you think could be complimentary to this network, you know, if there are businesses in your network that you know, that would like to be more connected to the cannabis industry. Let's, let's just have a conversation. Feel free to refer him.
TraeAnna Holiday 37:10
Absolutely. I was already thinking about that. Because there's a growing Black farmers collective up here, that's focusing on cannabis, we got the bud bros, they are a black cannabis growers that are kind of collectivizing Aaron Brasset has a whole - there's a whole network. So I was already thinking like, wow, I mean, as soon as you said that, it wasn't just Denver, I was like, Oh, snap. Like, that's amazing. Because I think that there's a lot of people up here who would like to understand how to enter the industry right here in Seattle. And it has been a tough call. One of the things I didn't say earlier was that, and I don't know if this is something you guys have been dealing with in Denver, but up here, I think the industry has been suffering from folks who have the resources, apparently a lot of white men who have those financial resources to buy up the licenses. It was one thing I wanted to ask you about. But are you guys experiencing any of that kind of disparity down there? Were folks who have those resources are just buying up the licenses?
Ernest Toney 38:11
Yea I mean, I think you're, you're gonna have a story like that in every market where there have been social equity licenses that have been dedicated, and in most cases, just just like the audience understand. So social equity, you might have a state that says, Okay, we're willing to give out 40 dispensary licenses. They're sort of like a lottery system, you have to apply, and, you know, so forth. And then they'll have a social equity program provision that says, okay, of those 40 licenses, maybe we're gonna give five of them to folks who qualify as a social equity applicant. So that might have something to do with, you know, folks that live in a community that was disproportionately impacted by the war on drugs during a certain timeframe might have to do with socio economic status of those folks, or it might have to do with, like, their racial and ethnic background. Okay. So, you know, if you're somebody that is like, hey, I want to apply for one of these licenses, and you're lucky enough to be selected and then you, you're like, Okay, cool. Now what, alright, well, I don't have generational wealth, I don't have, you know, quarter million or $1,000, to like, get this thing off the ground. It's very easy for somebody that has those resources to sort of be predatory in some ways, and try to figure out how to, you know, outright, I don't know if they're right buying it, or if they're trying to take over large percentage of ownership in that state. which case, you know, it helps the, the applicant because they're able to, you know, benefit off the stream, and, you know, benefit off of their dream, but at the same time, it's resources aren't necessarily going to the communities for whom it was intended. So that's why there's been a lot of criticism about social equity programs. I can't tell you, you know the specifics about like what has happened here in Denver, but I am lucky enough We're working with a guy named Joey Pena who's the city and counties, canvass process, navigator, Joey and I actually used to work together at marijuana Business Daily. And he was an editor and journalist for several years. So we have good relationship, and he's somebody that I might be able to connect on or connect with and learn more about exactly what's playing out here locally. But yeah, that's a that's a real challenge in a lot of markets. And it's why it's important to be raising, you know, conversations about equity right now, because you got, you know, like eight states that have a medical or adult use measures on their balance during the election cycle, you know, we're approaching federal legalization at some point. And when that happens, then you realize, okay, cannabis can now be provided as a medical treatment, or, as you know, for recreational or adult use in your state. We're gonna continue to have the same questions and criticisms about how licenses are getting doled out who has access to them, who's profiting off of it. So, you know, that's why I even like right now, back in my home state of Virginia, I'm already having conversations with, you know, folks in my community, you know, some lobbyists and legislators and trying to put pressure, you know, trying to do my best to educate people from the communities where I have strong ties, you know, building forward the HBCU network, because it's just a matter of time. I mean, that state just decriminalized early this summer, just open up their medical market. And, you know, I think once you get farther in the south, especially, you're gonna start to see these types of questions become more mainstream. So the more pressure you can do now, to help get it right, I think is going to make it easier and better, and hopefully more fair, and just for folks in the future.
TraeAnna Holiday 41:44
Absolutely. Well, you know, what a way to end it. Let me tell you, I'm glad I threw that question in there at the end. Because I think that when you're don't work in a particular industry, you don't understand the roadblocks, right. You don't even understand all the time. Some of the subtle nuances that then create avalanches right later down the line, you're like, oh, man, it's because of that one thing that all the way over here now, this big thing can't happen. And so thank you for providing some clarity on that from your perspective. Thank you again, for joining us here on Equity Rising today. It's been a great conversation with you. I'm really excited to learn more. And to connect more in the future. I think we have some amazing folks up here that definitely need BIPOCANN services so we'll make sure we stay connected. All right. All right. Thank you so much, Ernest.
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Lili Gu 42:36
Thanks for listening to Equity Rising. Stay tuned for a new episode next Thursday. You can help us get these ideas out there by subscribing to the podcast. And if you use Apple podcasts rating and reviewing us, and you can follow our host Trae Holiday on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. From our community to yours, take care.